The FastDay Forum

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/women-an ... z30NiMWjX8

Sigh.

Example:

One study, which I’ve cited before as evidence of a benefit to fasting, found that while IF improved insulin sensitivity in male subjects, female subjects saw no such improvement. In fact, the glucose tolerance of fasting women actually worsened. Ouch

Read more: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/women-an ... z30Nkvh5Dz

Hmmmm I've read this before and I don't think that there have been enough studies on the subject to confirm either way. From what I've read on here....albeit not accountable as scientific study....we ladies must be getting some improvement in insulin sensitivity or we wouldn't be losing very much weight.
I am sure @carorees will have something to say on the subject in a more scientific reply. Well I hope so anyway.

Yeah, the Paleo article/blog post referred to in this article got a huge amount of play. Who knows?

I will say that I am perimenopausal and the weight is NOT SHIFTING one bit (stalled since January), which has been anecdotally noted. I've moved to 4:3 this week to see if I can get some weight loss going again. But I'd hate to cause myself long-term harm by stressing my body too much. I suppose it all remains to be seen.

[carorees]

The study referred to took place in lean women and found that immediately after the fast the glucose excursions after a meal were larger than would be the case if not fasting. This is due to the tendency for the body to become a bit sluggish about changing fuels (whether from glucose to fat or vice versa). Studies in obese women have not found this problem, probably because they don't switch to fat burning easily and so their glucose burning pathways are already active. This study compared lean with obese women for example: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11237926

As the change in glucose tolerance only occurs with the first meal after the fast, this will only happen twice a week if you are doing 5:2 and in any case if you avoid breaking your fast with a high carb/high sugar food you won't have a problem.

The studies on rats mentioned in the MDA article are not valid because rats doing ADF is like us fasting for two weeks at a time and then having two weeks off! Hardly a good animal model!

The studies on intermittent fasting using the two-day diet by Harvie et al. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23591120 were exclusively done in women and found that it was very helpful not only reducing weight but also improving glucose metabolism (i.e., insulin resistance). I think these studies were published after this MDA article which is quite old now.

Thanks for that@Caroees I have fasted on and off for years so hope it isn't doing any damage, it is definitely the only way I can keep my weight in check. I never struggle with exercise on fast days or on the day after. The only down side I have ever had is feeling cold an a fast day and my trusty hotty sorts that out.

Whew, thanks Caroline! Your explanation made me feel better.

Melinda

me too. got a bit worried then

And me, I even looked up fat adapted as had no idea what it was. All I know is fasting gets results weight wise and makes me feel good. If I am not fasting regularly I go back into binge mode which is surely harmful, weight issues aside.

[Tracieknits]

I honestly do not understand why anyone puts any credence in that website.

Again, WHEW! I didn't know that website was dicey....glad I asked about it.

Also, what the heck is "fat-adapted"? I agree--I don't know what it is. he's so holier-than-thou.

Being fat-adapted is clearly and usefully described at the same site in two related articles.

Yes ok but what is it??????????

I have just started reading marks daily apple, today I will be making his chicken bone soup. Will read on a bit more to get my own view. Don't intend to discount him yet

But we know from the forum over time that women and men are different when it comes to their weight loss IF journey. We also must innately know that we have to eat healthily to maintain our body and fast intermittently only. So each of us has the responsibility to be discerning about what we read just we also need to be responsible about sensible fasting.

Thanks @izzy for those last 2 links as it will be handy to have somewhat of a handle on being fat adapted. It's all a learning curve while you observe how you respond especially as this is a long haul journey

[Debs]

Hi @Melindi_in_NC, I too have the same problem and also wonder if that is part of my problem too. Every single gram is clinging on stubbornly and won't shift, despite my best efforts!
I shall read the article in hope of enlightenment but don't take too much out of any of them.

What I love about this diet is the lack of obsessive heath-wonkism that you find in some of the other diet communities. I think that is because we can eat normally much of the time, while with paleo or cult Atkins every single meal stresses the dieter's difference from everyone else and it is necessary to develop a cult like in group mentality to stick to the restrictive diet.

FWIW, I'm old, postmenopausal and have found it very tough to lose weight on LC and Primal. I have lost steadily on this diet, about 1/2 lb a week, which is what calories predict. I actually hit my goal weight this morning after 20 fasts, a near miracle. I've also lost a bit from my waist which did not happen on my last few low carb/low cal diets. Best of all, I've done it eating pizza, occasional treats of fried chicken, and lots of chocolates. No feelings of deprivation and no need to drive those who live with me nuts because of a long list of "I can't eat that"s.

The published research on insulin sensitivity and diet is deeply flawed because nutritionists do not understand blood sugar at all. They tend to assume that high blood sugars after eating are always caused by insulin resistance when they can also be caused by slow insulin secretion, low insulin secretion paired with high insulin sensitivity or even by changes in digestive enzymes caused by dietary changes.

Many forms of insulin resistance are genetic in nature and will not change no matter what you weigh or eat. What will change is your blood sugar levels. But mainly they drop because you cut back on how much carbohydrate you are asking your insulin to process. Not because your insulin is working better. Lowering inflammation sometimes improves blood sugars, too, and obesity can lead to inflammation in fat tissue, so weight loss can help curb that inflammation. But any diet that decreases fat will have those same benefits.