The FastDay Forum

[carorees]

I'm sure you could Nickyanne. Why not try just skipping one meal and see how you go?

Just thought i'd put my two penneth in for what it's worth! On my feast days I have been keeping an eye on the calorie content of food, as this is really the first time I've had to take any notice of it! As a smoker, I often substituted food for cigarettes and since giving up I substituted the cigarettes for food! If I'm eating a dinner that's hard to calculate, instead of eating the same size portion as I would have, I've eaten a bit less, just stopped when full. I've been amazed at some of the calorie content (150 in a pitta bread! What's it made of? Lard?) I've also tried not to have too many carbs/high sugar foods due to blood sugar problems ( see blood sugar thread) I know this will be hard to sustain, but I really want to do the feast days like this while I'm highly motivated. I have lost half a stone since 21st jan, but happy if I lose 2lb a week from now on.

I do count calories on 4:3 simply because, 3 weeks in, I'm too nervous to give myself permission to eat what, and as much as, I like on feast days. I have a lot of weight to lose and am aware that eating what, and as much as, I like put the weight on in the first place! I'm doing 4:3 not just to lose weight but to address my chronic health problems - both are inextricably linked. So, to make sure I WILL lose weight, I count calories, using myfitnesspal, which tells everyone they need to consume 1200 calories per day to lose 2lbs per week, irrespective of their individual profile.

Wanting a more specific measurement, I've tried to get an accurate TDEE measure and I've heard that online calculators can vary enormously in their predictions. I've found this to be the case, having tried 4, the results are: 1488, 2008, 2345 and 2018 (the last from the Up Day Down Day website which also tells me I should consume no more than 404 calories on a Down Day).

What started out as a fairly straightforward WOE has now become ridiculously complicated and I've no-one to blame but myself for making it so. Perhaps I should simply trust the process, consume 500 calories on a fast day and eat 'normally' (whatever that is) on a feast day. Even the word 'feast' makes me nervous! But I so want this to work for me, for so many different reasons. Can anyone help me to get a grip?

[carorees]

Hi Marla

Most people are finding that after a while on 5:2 (or 4:3) they are getting full up really quickly on feed days and so it is hard to overeat. I have found myself that if I eat my previously normal portions on feed days my tummy hurts afterwards and I feel uncomfortably full. So, unless you are living on chocolate or other high fat/high sugar foods on your feed days I don't think you need to count calories. If you are nervous, you can keep track but don't hold back from having a piece of cake or chocolate or a pizza or whatever floats your boat. Just be mindful of how much you really want a second piece! The other easy way to keep calories on feed days down is to be aware of calories in drinks...lots of lattes, fruit smoothies, fruit juice, alcohol or, of course, sugar-sweetened drinks will push your calorie intake up. So, eat normally, don't binge and keep an eye on the drinks.

As I'm sure you're aware, telling yourself that something is forbidden will simply make you want it more so, allow yourself to feast...you will find that in a while you won't feel the need because you will have freed yourself from the 'forbidden food' effect.

Re the TDEE calculations, I'd guess that the average of your 4 is around 2000, so stick with the 500 cals for fast days.

Hope that helps!

As someone who took the eat what you like literally (on ADF so more cals to play with), it's taken about 4 weeks to get a grip but honestly, this has messed with my head. I've been finding eating days harder than fasting days. However, I'm now at a point where I can't eat as much, don't fancy eating much and it's all ok. There's chocolate all over the house now. Not losing much weight but look considerably lighter.

I've decided a lot of the eating was habitual. The cravings are irrational and if postponed to the following day, go away.

Now if my eye would just stop hurting, all would be well. Suspect caffeine withdrawal as I'm liking my tea less.

using myfitnesspal, which tells everyone they need to consume 1200 calories per day to lose 2lbs per week, irrespective of their individual profile.

MFP takes a deficit of 1,000 calories per day if you say you want to lose 2 lbs per week (which is above it's recommended 1 lb/week) but limits the result to a minimum of 1200.

So while it would be true to say that short sedentary women looking to lose 2 lbs/week are all given a 1200 target, it isn't correct to say this is irrespective of the profile - higher levels of activity or lower weight loss targets will get you a different number.

I would think 1488 is a bit low for your TDEE, unless you're a hobbit lying in bed all day, but 1500 would be a reasonable target for your feeding days I suspect if you're looking for a good rate of loss and have plenty of reserves to fuel the deficit.

Thanks for the response - very sensible advice which I shall take.

I would think 1488 is a bit low for your TDEE, unless you're a hobbit lying in bed all day, but 1500 would be a reasonable target for your feeding days I suspect if you're looking for a good rate of loss and have plenty of reserves to fuel the deficit.

Pondering on this further PhilT (just can't help myself!) if 1500 calories is a reasonable target for me to aim for on feeding days, would you say that I need to lower my calories on a fasting day? My understanding is that Dr Mosley, and others who advocate IF, suggest you should consume 25% of your normal calorie allowance on the fasting day, which would equate to 375 calories for me. I don't think that's doable three times a week and so, perhaps, I would be wiser, after all, to reduce calories on the feed day? Round and round and round I go!

[carorees]

Personally I think you should stick to 2000 and 500 unless you are really very small. I am generally averaging 1500/day over the week by having under 500 and between 1800 and 2200 on feed days. I have lost plenty. If your weight loss stalls for a good while, I would add another fast day rather than drop the feed day cals. It is not a sustainable lifestyle to restrict calories every day.

Thanks Caroline - need to settle into it a bit more I think.

the intermittent "fasting" does two things - lowers your weekly calorie intake and provides a change to the body which appears to have health benefits.

As you have a lot to lose 1500 / 500 5:2 should be an adequate regime for a good while, unless you have your metabolic rate measured you can't be pinpoint accurate. 1500 is a decent amount of food esp if 60g of it is protein.

[carorees]

The week I only had 1500 cals on feed days I put on 1 lb, next week I had more on feed days and lost 3 lb. It doesn't seem necessary to set a low calorie limit for feed days, and that is the point of the diet isn't it? Best set a more generous limit, if you must have a limit, so as not to feel deprived?

depends how much you want to lose and how fast. A famous Scotsman ate nothing for a year.

While 2000 might be "average" I've seen TDEE's for dieting women measured well below that, one wouldn't want to be running a positive energy balance for 5 days and a negative one for two while trying to lose weight ?

1500 isn't low, if "deprivation" is a mental issue for the individual then they can figure out their own intake.

I've just joined as I started the "diet" this week. I know its only my first week, but I've actually found that I just can't eat the same volume on normal days that I was eating previously, it's also made me very aware of what's HUNGRY and what is BORED!! I don't want to count calories on normal days, that's just not going to work for me long term. I have a lot of weight to lose and chose this diet precisely because it wasn't calorie counted!

[carorees]

Phil, I agree we have to be in negative energy balance overall to lose weight. The question is whether one should be in negative energy balance on feed days? I think not (or at least not always). The next question then is, how does one get an accurate TDEE calculation? They seem to vary so much from calculator to calculator. Have you looked into this at all?