The FastDay Forum

@Manderley I am sure that would be true. Well my belief is that whatever you believe IS your reality. However if you DO start to see it as a diet (restrictive eating) as I now do and after reading lots of stuff, I don't think there are the health benefits raptured about by Mosley in the way most of us are doing it (different on the Valter Longo method of true fasting), it's hard to just NOT think of it as a diet. BTW my blood sugar was higher after 6 months of fasting, blood pressure high and cholesterol high (if u believe in that ) I think once you see something in a different light you can't just switch back. I also must say that the thought of feeling hungry 2 days a week for life is not a pleasurable thought. The payoff doesn't seem worth it.

Interesting thought manderley
I gave to work harder at this thinking its a way of life not a diet
About the sugar craving : I cut out sugar awhile ago and have found that I have now lost the taste for it
I would far rather eat nuts.i do have some dark chocolate every day though

I have been inspired by this thread and have successfully completed two fasts this week - my first for many months. I found it tough in the mornings but it was easier as the day went on.

It is important for me to have a simple approach because otherwise it would feel like a restrictive diet and I know I would give up. What worked for me last year and what I am doing again now is two days per week with nothing to eat until the evening and then no calorie counting or restrictions on the other five days. I find that my appetite does reduce on the five feast days.

I think that the mistake I made in maintenance was that I stopped fasting completely as my weight was stable for five months. When I get back to target, and I am determined now that I have started again, I will continue to fast at least one day a week.

Good luck to everyone else who is struggling and let's keep sharing experiences as it does help.

Maybe we falter because it is a primal instinct to eat. And lets face it, we are surrounded by instant food.
@peebles I was interested in your comment about 'blubber' . I have read and heard(TV) lately that we never lose fat cells they just diminish. Shrunken fat cells lurk in our body in wait for a good feed and then...blow up like happy ticks falling off a dog!
@GMH thanks for the tip on chromium. A year ago I completely gave up sugar and didn't mind at all but somehow the half teaspoon was all it took to get the addiction back again.

@Manderley,

There may well be a psychological factor at work here, but what makes me disinclined to believe that is that my relationship with food was quite healthy for the past decade. My weight regain had a lot to do with developing an esophageal infection a year ago that made me have to stop a medication I need to control my blood sugar and keep me from getting hunger-inducing blood sugar swings.

I've been taking that medicine again during the past three months but still finding myself with cravings and what is starting to feel like a disordered relationship with eating. I attribute this to being below my set point for the last decade. It seems like the problem kicked in when I got back to my old weight range (142-145) and that it has been intensifying with each pound I have lost since then.

Since I have run into this exact same compulsion to regain every time I have been in the high 130s over the past 10 years--this is the third time--I think it has more to do with set points and something that kicks in at the brain level that fights to get back to that set point.

There's a kind of compulsive quality to my need to eat that is very alien to my usual nature. Yes, I love to eat, but there is a kind of scary undertone now of feeling compelled to eat that is disturbing. And since I know myself very well, relative to food, when I find myself with unusual food feelings, I always assume there is a physiological rather than psychological reason for them. So far, that realization has never proved illusory.

With other setpoint issues (and I have had them re blood pressure and fasting blood sugar) the key has been to wait them out, though sometimes it can take a L-O-N-G time for the setpoint to reset.

Interesting about set points.mine keeps going up
First I was one kilo above my ideal weight and told my self that was ok
Then last year I accepted two kilos above my perfect weight
Now I am almost three kilos above .
So,where am I going?

I had that compelling feeling of needing to eat,back in january...a terrible hunger ( far different from the passing hunger pangs on a fast day)
This was like a driving urge to eat that was impossible to ignore ..
It may have been i was in famine mode ( had been so " good" for many months, including Christmas, and had lost two stone, and then I seemed to be getting the physiological message to "eat,eat,eat,danger ahead if you don't!")
On Caroree's advice,i ate without calorie counting or fasting for a week..then found that the overwhelming hunger had gone and was able to resume fast/ feed mode with only the usual and dealable with hunger probs.
Perhaps you need to do same? Apparently it can take a week or several weeks to come out of famine mode..but you very quickly realise when you have x x

I started fasting in April of 2013 when I weighed in at 118#. I fasted pretty religiously and got down to 109# as my lowest weight in years. To give you some perspective, when I got married 22 years ago I weighed only 98# but that was probably because of stress, age, etc. I'm short so 5# makes a huge difference in my circumference. Bottom line, is that I really do love food and so I thought I could get away with eating more carefully 7 days a week and quit fasting to see what would happen.

One major reason I quit fasting was the death of my mother. She had succumbed to Alzheimer's and I was reading everything I could get my hands on about how to prevent it. That led me to read "Grain Brain". I love his premise that the brain is made of fat and that good fats (olive oil, fish and oils, butter, avocados, etc.) are good for you. He does not like many other oils than olive - in fact he does not like canola, corn, etc so I found myself making my own mayonnaise as even Best Foods with olive oil contains canola oil. Thank the lord the man did allow red wine. I think I was able to eat according to these rules for about a month before I "lost it". I found only one cracker that I could eat (Flackers) that did not contain flour, soy or anything like that. Mary's Gone Crackers contains some of the verboten ingredients. Long story short, I still try to use olive oil, butter and eat avocados, but I can't happily or sustainably be that strict with my diet. I'm not saying it isn't a good diet for some people; it just did not work for me. That's how I strayed and now I'm back to 5:2.

I'm curious to know, Pebbles, what you consider "weird" about our diet on the West Coast? Please understand I am NOT being critical, just curious! I've lived here my whole life so I don't know any other WOE. My husband and I usually split entrees or eat 2 appetizers each because portion size in the US is a problem. I work in San Francisco, but live north in the country. We have a garden and try to grow most of our own herbs, tomatoes and such. I'm lucky enough to work across the street from the Ferry Building and can buy fresh fish, grass fed beef or lamb and pasture raised chicken. I think of our daily diet as a sort of a "Mediterranean diet" with lots of fresh veggies and fruit in season, plenty of olive oil and a small serving of protein.

All input is welcomed.

@CandiceMarie,

I'm glad to hear you were able to get past that issue. I didn't fast today, which is my usual fast day as a friend is having a party to celebrate the publication of her latest novel. She is a wonderful baker and usually makes to-die-for treats at these dos, (Her books are very good too.

@Mouse,

Authors who make a buck preying on the fears of those of us who have watched a parent die of dementia should be jailed. There is zero evidence that any dietary intervention can prevent dementia. The latest fad demonization of wheat is just plain profiteering. There are some fats that are better than others, but no evidence at all that eating them preserves your brain, or, for that matter, that any intervention does. Large recent studies have discredited the health claims of fish oil and wine.

The diet book hucksters needed a new pitch and came up with the wheat BS. In another few years everyone will abandon it for whatever the new fad is. A few lucky MDs with zero training or experience treating obesity or endocrine problems will make a fortune, a lot of people will build up a huge craving for real bread, and people will continue to find it very hard to keep weight off because so much nonsense is published and echoed in the blogosphere while so little attention is paid to the realities. In no other area , save perhaps stock investing, do people seem to be so eager to believe in fake miracles.

Re West Coast food, my recent experience was in WA state where we expected to find wonderful Asian food but followed Yelp to three places serving strange, salty, greasy teriyaki stuff the like of which I had never seen. None of the bakeries we went to were what we would have called good, and I found it bizarre that the barristas at Starbucks could not deal with a simple order for decaf coffee. They had to make it as a single serving and charge me even more than the usual Starbucks exorbitant charge.

My daughter spent ten years in LA and whined about the food the whole time. I think it must just be what you are used to. We live in an area with a lot of what traveling has taught me are surprisingly good, reasonably-priced, nonchain restaurants.

Thanks, Pebbles, for the explanation. I have not been that lucky with Yelp to tell you the truth. You can never tell what experience the poster has with anything so it's kind of a crap shoot no matter what they are recommending.

As for staving off ALZ, I've decided I'm going to "use my head" about it, be reasonable, continue to learn a new language, be physically active, eat a sensible (balanced) diet and keep fasting.

@Mouse my brother read Brain Grain (we have the fear of Alzheimer's because mum had it) and was quoting Permutter (he has a lot of detractors BTW especially from his own patients) or whatever his name is like he wrote the bible, I read a synopsis of Wheat Belly at the same time, both interesting. Firstly these are the opinions of these people and whilst I have been into low GI carbs for 14 years thanks to one of my avant garde doctors, I think that following these principles is damn hard. I don't want to live to 90 always trying to achieve perfection like a good girl, I'd rather live to 80 being a bit naughty, but healthy My overriding belief is veggies. Whilst everyone is extolling NOT eating this and that, they forget the one thing that is healthy and low cal. You rarely see in these pages people talking about eat more veggies AND herbs. Herbs are amazing. 2 of my dogs have had the most amazing recoveries with herbs, when traditional vet medicine could not help, if only there were more open minded vets! I think I'm pretty healthy, especially when I see so many morbidly obese people about, struggling to even walk, let alone breathe easily. I often wonder what their mental set point is, or if they have one, I know when I get to a certain weight my mind kicks in with a wet fish however sadly I see this isn't the case with a lot of people and I wonder what can be done to help them lead healthier lives.

As to West Coast food, from an Aussie's point of view, we see shop after shop selling crap! But if you know where to go there are some gems, Greens and Millennium in San Francisco and Wholefoods was a godsend for a travelling Vego. The coffee was another issue, coming from cafe society and finding Starbucks was the only half decent coffee around was hard (no one goes to Starbucks here).

My mother always said Moderation in all things. I used to yell I DONT WANT TO BE MODERATE!! LOL I still don't want to be like the mainstream, but I now know she was right.

@GMH,

Nobody goes to Starbucks in my region, either, as we have so many wonderful local coffee roasters. My favorite is Dean's Beans. We order them by mail and they have spoiled us for anything else. We've been to his coffee roasting place and met him, too. Not huge scale, just very delicious, and he appears to have been the one who invented the concept of "Fair trade" coffeee.

I don't know about Perlmutter, but I saw a video of Dr. Davis and the man had a big potbelly. An acquaintance went on the "Low carb cruise" with him a few years back and commented on the same thing.

Hi @mouse. I'm a Brit living here and happy to give you a European perspective on food. I have to tell you that the food here in Northern California is some of the best I have eaten anywhere in the world. However there is a BUT.

I love the Farmers Markets and as you say the Ferry Building is great. The problem is that it is very expensive to source great ingredients and it is easy to get overwhelmed by the not so great stuff here. I just buy for one and I spend as much here for me in one week as I do in the UK to feed two.

I shop mostly at Whole Pay Check and even there, the first thing you see is racks and racks of tortilla chips and the most mind boggling array of dressings I have ever seen. Now that might be better than in the UK where you are confronted with racks and racks of wine when you go into a supermarket, but to a European eye its odd. Because you are catering for more people here, the veggies often don't have much taste and so I always buy organic (but often they are not really organic).

You have to read labels really carefully here. I notice many more additives than in Europe in the foods. On the other hand, if you have allergies, there is nothing you can't get and there is no excuse as things that are hard to get in Europe are freely available here. I have however had allergic reactions to fairly innocent items such as fresh raspberries.

Eating out is challenging because it took me six months to learn the system - as you say - share an entree. San Francisco has some of the best restaurants in the world, but in many average restaurants somehow there is always one ingredient too many piled on top. This is often a US thing I find, but finding a restaurant that will do fish, simply broiled, no sauces, not farmed can be challenging. I get weird looks every time. Shrimps often have a strange aftertaste to a European palate, like they have been somehow pasturised.

It's not all bad. I LOVE the sweetness of the fruits here and the range and availability. Young coconuts you just can't get in the UK very easily at all. Same with veg, eg the range of beets, daikon, types of kales etc. I also like the fact that grass fed beef is easy to obtain. Ahi tuna - never see it in the UK but I would eat it every day if I could afford it. Coffee - yay! well, its San Francisco and I'm glad you guys are lunatics about coffee quality.

I am a fan of Grain Brain and when I'm good I eat no sugar and no grains, but I do eat brown rice . The absolute worse thing about living in America? Sugar or corn syrup in everything. WTF??

@Peebles I'm laughing at Davis and his WHEAT BELLY or was it Beer Belly? look these guys want to make money and this is easier than having to go to work everyday like the rest of us unwashed. I must say I haven't been to the US for 5 years and let's face it, if u r a visitor you often don't know where to go. Likewise I have a friend, ex boss who started Allpress coffee with his friend Mike Allpress, 1 lives in Oz,1 in NZ, I love that coffee. They also seem to teach the baristas at the cafes they sell to, to make good coffee...and they seem to use Jersey cow milk in some of the cafes. The milk used is as important as the coffee, which a lot if cafes don't recognise.

@rawkaren, it's so funny how when we travel we see these things and how things change. When I first lived in London in the 1970s u couldn't get decent veg and people ate egg n chips for dinner!! What!?! Now I see u can buy the most amazing food in the UK.