The FastDay Forum

[carorees]

Hi John

I'm sorry you are finding it so frustrating! I think the 5:2 premise is (or should be) that you can eat what you like, but perhaps not as much of what you like as formerly. The diet was developed based on a sample of 1 (or 2 if you count Mimi Spencer) and of course, while for some people it works perfectly, others need to be a little more careful. I think this is where Krista Varady's alternate day diet works better because very few people can fail to lose weight with fasting every other day.

After a year of fasting, my appetite is so reduced that I am happy to leave out the bread, potatoes and rice from my diet so that I have room for a piece of cake or chocolate. I don't feel deprived because I still get to eat some treats. So I don't think you have to cut out all enjoyment, just perhaps, gain a degree of mindfulness. I would guess that with continued fasting you would find your tastes and appetite changing in any case, but because of the blood pressure issue, you are, understandably, keen to get a move on with making progress. Once your appetite and tastes start to change the weight will come off faster. Indeed you say your appetite is already starting to reduce.

From the science research I have read, it seems that the good effects of fasting come from a) the reduction in total calories and b) the reduction in carbohydrate intake during the fasting process. This is why I suggest cutting down on carbs on your feast days as well as the fasting.

So, what I do is to cut out the carbs that are basically 'filler' and keep the carbs from fruit, root veg, cake, chocolate, wine, resulting in a much reduced overall carb intake but still plenty of nice stuff! By skipping breakfast every day I was also able to cut out a load of carbs that I would normally have eaten at breakfast (cereal, toast etc). You can see that I have increased the amount of fasting by skipping breakfast and cut down on some carbs...a combined approach.

You need to find a method of fasting and feasting that works for you, so I'd recommend experimenting to see what kind of system will fit best with your lifestyle. Once you know the basic rules: keep insulin levels down and keep calorie intake lower than your daily energy needs you have the tools to work out the best method for you.

Finally, I'm not sure if I've already posted about this on your thread, but the saturated fat issue is context dependent. If you have a high carb diet, then saturated fats need to be kept down so as to allow you to have the required intake of unsaturated fats. If you have a lower carb, higher fat diet, then the extra fat can be taken as saturated fat because you only need a finite amount of unsaturated fat in your diet.

It is that act of experimentation which has led to try out 16/8 tomorrow to see if I can claw back that overall one pound weight gain over the course of a week (which I am running at just now) and turn that into an overall weight loss over the course of a week. If it then turns out from the resulting experiences that I with that, that I don't need to be doing 16/8 in addition to 5:2 (and possibly the DASH diet for my blood pressure), I can then go back to eating breakfast again (which I currently having to do anyway after my big 36 hour zero fasts, in order to avoid going into extended fasting territory).

At one time, breakfast would consist of the traditional cereal and toast. However, I then ditched that and replaced that with scrambled eggs on toast (with wholemeal bread instead of white bread) in order to reduce the carbs a bit, and that was even before the discussions about cutting carbs on this forum even came about. If I feel like treating myself, I will also have some bacon with that although bacon is largely a protein source, and I have heard that the protein intake should be a sort of medium level without taking too much of that. Of course, I could decide not to have those bits of toast, but when I skip breakfast, I'm not having that toast anyway, so I'm actually cutting back on carbs even more by doing that. I also forgot to mention that whereas I also used to have a glass of fruit juice with my breakfast (which of course, contains sugar and therefore, more carbs), I have now replaced that with a glass of milk whenever I do have breakfast.

And don't forget the potato substitutes like swede or celeriac.... both of those make a cracking "mash" 0 I add a couple of tablespoons of fat-free natural yoghurt and a teaspoon of wholegrain mustard instead of milk and butter.... You can also use the aforementioned to make chips too..... there are loads of cheats and most of the time if your brain sees "chips", it's very convincing! Well it IS to my brain, anyway....

With me being Scottish, one of my favourite meals would normally be haggis, turnips (which we refer to in Scotland as neaps) and tatties (which is the Scottish term for potatoes which in this case, would usually be mashed). A turnip is really just another name for a swede and so, I would feel strange trying to envisage having the swede instead of the potatoes.

[carorees]

With me being Scottish, one of my favourite meals would normally be haggis, turnips (which we refer to in Scotland as neaps) and tatties (which is the Scottish term for potatoes which in this case, would usually be mashed). A turnip is really just another name for a swede and so, I would feel strange trying to envisage having the swede instead of the potatoes.

That would be, um, neaps and neaps?!! Yes, I think it would not be quite the same!

Tonight, I have just had my first set of blood pressure readings since going back onto my BP tablets, and I've just had some amazing results from that which are as follows:-

Reading 1 (taken at 10:20pm BST): 134/71 (Pulse: 57)
Reading 2 (taken at 10:23pm BST): 131/71 (Pulse: 56)
Reading 3 (taken at 10:26pm BST): 137/80 (Pulse: 57)

As you can see, this is a massive improvement on what I have been getting recently. All but one of my diastolic BP readings lie almost bang in the middle of the healthy range with everything else falling within the prehypertension region. I had expected it to take a bit of time for the BP tablets to kick in once again and so, I did not expect this big immediate drop in blood pressure that I've just had.

That therefore, leads me to ask the question of why on Earth, I wasn't getting results like that when I was experimenting with being off those stupid tablets. Anyway, I have started the 16 hour zero calorie fast which makes up part of tomorrow's 16/8 routine. Today, I managed to keep a fairly sensible calorie intake and that is even after allowing myself to have just one small glass of wine after my evening meal.

Since I knew that I was going into 16/8 mode for tomorrow though, I made sure that I finished that glass of wine by 8pm. This fast will then be broken when I have my lunch at 12 noon tomorrow. That will happen after tomorrow morning's doctor's appointment (which will be interesting to say the least), and after I have been to the gym afterwards (which means that I will then have my first ever experience of doing a full body gym workout on an empty stomach).

Despite that 16 hour fast though, tomorrow will still be another feeding day rather than a fast day, although I will then be closing the window once again for tomorrow's calorie intake before 8pm. Since I will then be going into another fasting day on Thursday that will include a full 24 hour zero calorie fast, I will actually be closing that window an hour earlier at 7pm, so it will end up being something more like 16/7. So, if all of that doesn't result in overall weekly weight loss next Monday, I don't know what will.

Just taken some more BP results this morning, and the results are even better than what they were last night. My weight has gone up to 73.9kg, but that is only 0.1kg more than what it was at this time last week and so, the gap is closing there. I could probably have reduced this morning's weight even further if I hadn't went to the supermarket cafe for yesterday's breakfast. However, it is the two 16/8 days which should make the real difference this time, especially since a lot of last week's calorie intake was taken at breakfast time.

This morning's all important BP results are as follows:-

Reading 1 (taken at 6:10am BST): 133/83 (Pulse: 61)
Reading 2 (taken at 6:13am BST): 126/74 (Pulse: 58)
Reading 3 (taken at 6:16am BST): 129/78 (Pulse: 58)

My diastolic BP figures aren't quite as good as those for last night, but the last two readings for that are still within the healthy range for diastolic blood pressure. It is the systolic BP readings which have shown the real improvement although all of these readings are still in the pre-hypertension region (the healthy range for systolic BP is quite a strict one, which requires that to be below 120). These results are therefore showing a narrowing of my pulse pressure which was widening for a while, so that is quite a good thing here.

[carorees]

Interesting! Two possible explanations occur to me. First, the break from the tablets normalized things (some medications are known to benefit from a "holiday", I'd not heard of this for ACE inhibitors though). Second, something was driving the high readings you got last week that has now changed...any ideas?

I'd keep monitoring it though. You may (eventually) be able to spot a link.

[carorees]

I looked for info about what happens when an ACE inhibitor is stopped but couldn't find anything. I did see, though, that there are alternatives pathways the body can use to raise BP. It could be that your body was increasingly using these alternative pathways until you stopped the drug. While you were off treatment, the ACE pathway was used again so restarting treatment resulted in BP reduction. Just a possibility!

Sounds like a good explaination, but I'm not sure that this would explain why the reduction in BP has happened so suddenly and abruptly in the manner that it has, especially as it normally takes a bit of time for the BP medications to bed in, and I had been off them for a week. Anyway, I have printed out the important data for that and so, it will be interesting to hear what my doctor has to say on the issue at this morning's appointment. I will probably have some blood tests done while I'm there (for my cholesterol, etc.) and these will be interesting as well, since I will be going there in a fasted state (I have 3 and a half hours left of my 16 hour fast on a day where I don't have to worry about restricting to 600 calories for today (that will come with tomorrow's fasting day)).

[carorees]

Better warn your doctor to expect high total cholesterol if you have been fasting! This is not dangerous, it just shows that your body is using fat for fuel! It's not certain, though, as it depends on so many factors. The best thing to look at is the ratio of HDL to total cholesterol (needs to be under 4) and not worry about total cholesterol.

Better warn your doctor to expect high total cholesterol if you have been fasting! This is not dangerous, it just shows that your body is using fat for fuel! It's not certain, though, as it depends on so many factors. The best thing to look at is the ratio of HDL to total cholesterol (needs to be under 4) and not worry about total cholesterol.

Sorry, but I had already left the house for my doctor's appointment before your reply came through. That means that I didn't get the chance to take that on board. Now that I have that appointment out of the way, I have opened up a new thread for that, so that you can read all about how I got on with that here.

Just my weekly summary (more details of how my week went can be seen here on my blog). My weight is down by just under 2 pounds from this time last week, and is now at 74.1kg (which is 11 stone 9 pounds), and that is despite a big increase in my weight of 0.9kg between yesterday and this morning.

My lowest weight was recorded on Friday morning after my second fasting day, and that was 72.7kg (not quite as low as what it was after the first fasting day within the previous week and so, that would amount to a weight gain of 0.1kg if I went by that alone).

My highest weight was the 74.8kg which I recorded at this time last week. That represents a swing of 2.1kg (about 4 and a half pounds) between my lowest and highest recorded weights of this week. I can also confirm that my waist size has shrunk by 0.6 inches since this time last week, and is now at a record low level of 31.1 inches. Meanwhile, my body percentage is now down to 12.91% which is also a record low level.

This shows that the introduction of 16:8 into my feeding days and the gradual reduction in carb intake are already starting to make a difference. My blood pressure readings haven't been that bad either. I am still getting some high readings, and had quite a few of them both last night and this morning. However, it was good to get my first completely healthy BP reading under this WOL with both my systolic and diastolic blood pressures coming within the healthy range for that.

Today, I have just set a new all time record for my lowest ever weight, by weighing in at 72.4kg (which is 11 stone and 5.6 pounds (that looks better on paper than the 11 stone 6 pounds which that still rounds to when taken to the nearest pound)). My weight is obviously artificially low this morning since that came after yesterday's fasting day.

However, yesterday was just a normal 600 calorie fast, and not the big 36 hour zero calorie fast that I had a week earlier. That result also means that I am still running at a one pound overall weight loss since this time last week and this is now the second successive occasion where I have had better results with a normal 600 calorie fast, than what I was getting with the big 36 hour zero calorie fasts (looks like Dr. MM was onto something there after all).

In addition to that, I also had a much better night's sleep than what I have been getting after my recent fasting days and because of that, I'm now wondering if those big 36 hour zero calorie fasts might actually be doing more harm than good. There is also the fact that the weight gain on the first feeding day after my last normal 600 calorie fasting day from last week, was much smaller than it was after that big 36 hour zero calorie fast and in fact, that is where last week's overall weight loss was earned.

If I could be around this weight after the last feeding day before going into a fasting day, I would then feel more than ready to go into weight maintenance mode as I was always hoping to be somewhere between 11 stone and 11 and a half stone. That is because if I were to go below 11 stone at any time and start recording 10 stone something, that would be a bit low for me (although briefly doing so after a fasting day wouldn't be such a big deal).

That might still be some time away yet though and so, my immediate target will now be to be somewhere below 74kg going into a fasting day, especially as I have now got very close to achieving that goal. That is therefore, a target which I feel that I should be capable of achieving this week since all I need to do for that is to find some way of preventing any of those big weight gains of around 1kg on any of my feeding days.

Today, I'm going into a 16:8 day so that I'm not tempted into eating any of those big breakfasts. However, the blood pressure is continuing to be quite a big issue for me because now, blood pressure readings which are not showing as quite high for my systolic blood pressure are once again becoming increasingly isolated events (these readings are consistently coming out at somewhere between 140 and 150).

That is despite my attempts to cut carbs and do everything else that is recommended for cutting down my blood pressure. That means that no matter what actions I take, my blood pressure just continues to refuse to respond to that in any way and because of that, I feel as though that whole issue has now defeated me to the point where I now no longer see any point in even bothering about that, especially as the doctor has said that the readings are not at dangerously high levels and doesn't seem that bothered about trying to get me to bring that down a bit.

If you have read my latest blog entry, you will see that last week was quite a week for me. It was a week which was looking really good for a while before it all went wrong big style over a weekend which contained a load of carbs consumption and plenty of alcohol. It was also a roller coaster week in terms of my blood pressure which slumped to a record low value of 112/62 yesterday, and then jumping all the way up to 155/85 this morning.

Anyway, this thread is all about providing a summary of the statistics over the week, and they show that my weight is up to 75.5kg (11 stone 12 pounds) which is an increase of 4 pounds since this time last week. My waist size hasn't gone up by quite so much, but it is still up by 0.3 inches since this time last week with my body fat percentage also going up slightly.

My lowest weight of this week was the 72.4kg that I recorded on Wednesday, with my highest weight by far, being what I have just recorded this morning. Hopefully, most of that weight gain will be water weight which I should lose as this week wears on. Today is another fasting day, but it is cold outside (although the Sun is shining at least) and that is making me feel hungrier than normal. Because of that, I might split up my 600 calorie allocation in order to minimise the hunger. That should also reduce the risks of any adverse effect on my sugar levels which could yet occur as a result of what happened over the weekend, and which could be made even worse if I were to do a full 36 hour zero calorie fast today.

On top of all of that, I also have a dentist's appointment later on today, and those are the sort of things that I hate, especially since I ended up having a tooth removed at this time last year.