The FastDay Forum

My interest is whether a 5:2 or similar fasting based regime is any easier to stick to?

The drop-out rate was similar for a 5:2 regime (two consecutive days) and for continuous daily restriction diet in at least one clinical trial - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20921964

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... figure/F1/ shows the dropouts from the two branches.

[carorees]

Yet, most of our members report it easier to stick to than continuous daily restriction. I would imagine that there are several factors at play here: first is that the two days are not consecutive and the second being that our members have chosen to follow the fasting method rather than have it forced upon them.

I have been wondering if there is any way to collect data on drop-outs from our members. Perhaps a follow up PM for those who haven't visited the forum for a long period?

Had a couple of conversations with coleagues about use in children.
Not much risk identified in 5:2,
Quite a nihilistic response from some,
Nothing works
Even: is it important!
Comments about the population a proprtion of overweight people who apear to remain healthy, and a smaller presumed definable population with massive risk

I have been wondering if there is any way to collect data on drop-outs from our members. Perhaps a follow up PM for those who haven't visited the forum for a long period?

Offtopic I think it would be a good thing anyway, it might pull some of them back!

It's true that our tracker data could be unrepresentative because when people fail on 5:2 they will probably drop out of the forum (or never enter their data in the first place). Anecdotally i.e. from messages posted here, there don't seem to be many people failing (but the same caveat applies).

Tardis58, I can't say I'm too surprised at the negative responses! 5:2 and IF in general is still pretty new, so there is bound to be a heavy dose of scepticism. When it comes to using it with the young I imagine this is x10 or x100! One obvious concern is the effect on IGF-1, which might be damaging for them. Even Dr M does not recommend it for children or adolescents, though he did tweet that there were suggestions it might be okay post-puberty.

[carorees]

Had a couple of conversations with coleagues about use in children.
Not much risk identified in 5:2,
Quite a nihilistic response from some,
Nothing works
Even: is it important!
Comments about the population a proprtion of overweight people who apear to remain healthy, and a smaller presumed definable population with massive risk

Nothing works = nothing has worked so far. But is that a reason to stop trying? We are all hoping that 5:2 will be different.

People who appear to remain healthy...Hmm, but how do we know they are going to remain healthy? How are they defining healthy? Being overweight has many disadvantages beyond cardiovascular etc risk...mobility, wear and tear on joints, mental problems from bullying etc. Judging from the posts on this forum and elsewhere, a lot of people are desperate to find a diet that works and they can stick to. They are saying how they hate their bodies...fasting seems to produce a sense of euphoria in many as well as improved self esteem, so the mental health component should not be overlooked. This approach appears sustainable and seems to reeducate eating habits in many of us too, giving a sense of control...another mental health benefit.

For the people at high risk there is evidence that 5:2 lowers risk. Of course, lowering risk does not mean reducing it to zero so there are bound to be some people who fast and are not overweight who will, unfortunately, develop disease.

That's what I think anyway.

Interestingly, my daughter who is now nine has always naturally eaten in the 5:2 style, she eats non stop for a couple of days then hardly eats anything for the next few. She has done this since a baby and at 9 she is at her ideal BMI and is very healthy, hardly ever ill and full of energy. Its always been a family joke as to whether its her hungry day or not !!

Children are a lot more robust than is accounted for.
The anxiety is around the professionals responsibility when hard evidence of safety is absent.
Risk is presumed, yet most paediatricians send much of their practice prescribing off or at the edge of licences.
I couldn't claim my wife fasts but her intake varies substantially and spontaniosly and allways has.
I'm continuing to work on the possibility of a trial, initially in post puberatal children.

Hard evidence of safety is always an issue as you can't prove a negative. I would imagine there would be a lot of reaction from the "eating disorder community" too, as witnessed in blog and newspaper article comments.

Being up-front about it like doing a trial in "Obese post puberatal children" might help with the latter aspect.

Agreed, I'll keep nerds corner updated on trial in obese post pubertal children
12 mile fat man run just finished
Paris marathon is 8 weeks tomorrow and reading the dietary section of "the book" in the bath after, I'm disappointed to read of the pragmatic and evidenced 1lb per week loss.
Two weights this week 14st 6 and 14st 8 and not in the hoped for order but as my son would say, just a big sh##.
I had hoped to be down to less than 13, should have started earlier, obviously.
I'm feeling my way but <600 cal evening meal seems simplest, Monday and Wenesday and then Friday fast again till a normal evening. meal this would mean a third fast in a week of 20 to 24 hr, not the same calory limitation obviously. I'm also training which should help. Fat man training s not the same as Olympian.

I would have classed myself as one of the healthy ones, and for about 40 years, apart from asthma, I didn't have much in the way of obesity related disease - but at around 47 I developed type 2 diabetes, which is pretty disastrous for a sugar addicted glutton! I don't know why I stayed reasonably healthy and what I would call manageable morbidly obese at around the 20 stone mark and didn't eat myself up to 25 stone or more. I am fairly aware of nutritional issues and did eat a fairly balanced diet, apart from the excess sugar.

14 miles this afternoon
weight is "fine" 14st 7 or 6
Like many previous diet attempts 4:3 was impressive initially
(I am having normal evening meal day 3/friday but after 20hr fast. Mon and Wed as per advise, eating once a day.)
But I have quiet a lot of day to day variation, loosing some apparent gains and probably 1 to 1.5 lb will be the outcome. After 27 years trying to reduce my weight I'm still looking for the miracle cure!
My experiment with GP continue, not on statin, we're looking to measure impact of 4:3 upon cholesterol of 7.2, then intend to restart a statin wary of its previous impact in muscle damage (CK650)

[wildmissus]

Re fasting in obese children.

In my opinion (and I am stubborn) you've got to be kidding!!

I'm not an expert at all but my two daughters aged 12 & 14, who are slim, have quite a few obese friends (and a morbidly obese cousin) and as much as the girls want to lose weight I suspect all of them on a fast day would find ways of sneaking extra food and tell there parents they stuck to there allotted calories! What child (or adult, aged 45 - me) would rather have an apple over a bar of chocolate or packet of crisps!! And how many kids of that age do what there parents/teachers/doctors tell them!

As a child my parents were very strict with us kids, we were not allowed snacks and did not get treats as a result when I left home at the age of 18 I gorged myself!!! Yes, I was a skinny child. Anyway, there were plenty treats in the house for my dad but what my parents didn't realise is that we used to pinch packets of chocolate biscuits and hide them under our bed.

I'm sorry if I sound so cynical but I hope my opinion will help. I think that weight issues are as much if not more psychological issues than physical. I know for myself it took me until I was in my early 40's to deal with the effects of my controlling parents and it is only now that I feel I am a good person that I can deal with losing weight properly.

I agree with wildmissu really. I think it would be very difficult for a parent to control and also very difficult to resist letting the child eat something. Both my children are more on the side of skinny but that doesn't mean I don't have a constant battle with them now about sweets & chocolate! It was much easier when they were younger but I know that when my eldest is hungry, my life would be absolute hell if I didn't let him eat. The 'If I don't have it in my cupboards, then they can't eat it' philosophy works but as soon as I buy any biscuits/ treats ( I felt I was the only one who wouldn't allow it as the grandparents let them eat all manner of crap!) they're like vultures descending! Understandably I suppose! I imagine a parent with an obese child would have a very difficult time unless the child was 100% committed. Can we expect that kind of willpower in an adolescent? Can we expect it of the parent? I have no experience of this, just two constantly hungry boys aged 11 &12

"just two constantly hungry boys aged 11 &12"

try feeding them less carbohydrate perhaps ?

Pray to god that was tongue in cheek Phil?