The FastDay Forum

As I may have said compliance or concordance is the biggest topic of discussion in Paediatric and Adolescent clinics. It's something I've worked with for 28 years. The interest in 5:2 is that some of the features that make it attractive to adults may also make it effective in children. We also have a new phenomena, the increasing incidence of type 2 diabetes in children. I don't have the stats to hand but this was very rare 30 years ago but is becoming mor common. One could argue that the same issues Mike reports in adults, continuous carbohydrate availability, continuous insulin secretion may be leading to insulin resistance. The evolutionary theories also apply. Continuos snacking on high energy foods is a new phenomenon and in my opinion is not healthy. Changing family and children's eating habits does work and many families avoid such issues. This is from a 14st 6lb 5'10" paediatrician. Doctor health thyself.

I was a fat kid, 11 stone at 11. I was bullied in school and lost a couple of stone at 12/13, it's perfectly possible for kids to understand weight issues. I was sort of on my own with this, even at an early age, too.

Keeping it off is a whole different story and if adults can't agree how best to lose weight, it gets even more complicated.

[wildmissus]

Tardis, How many obese children have obese parents? In my experience of my kids friends I suspect the percentage would be high. Perhaps getting the parents onto 5:2ing and giving the kids a tweaked version of it would help with the children's compliance. The other thing that helps in my house is getting the kids to give me ideas of what meals to have over the next week when doing a shopping list and getting them to help me make the tea. My kids are a healthy weight but I am overweight and I know how difficult it is to lose weight and keep it off and how easy it is to talk about it!!!

The Tardis thing sucks a bit sorry. It's Stephen
As you say the incident of obesity in parents of obese children s indeed high.
The idea of using the kids to write the weeks menus is excelent
My wife has always used the two good choices idea
What do you want carrots or pees

[wildmissus]

Hi Stephen, thank you for you kind comments.

To add to some of the other questions you enquired about in you initial post. I am on week 6 of 5:2ing. I fast on a Mon & Thurs. I take my 500 cals in one meal at tea time, 1. because I feel that if I ate earlier in the day I would turn on the hungry switch and 2. I don't want my 2 daughters to think I'm on a faddy diet.

As I understand it the longer you go without any food the better - the fat burning switch takes a good number of hours to turn on. I might one day try 0 cals on a Monday, ie 36hrs true fasting - I think this might be psychologically difficult. However, the more I do this way of eating the more I want to do it.

My weight has gone down and up but that doesn't worry me any more as it is short term. I think this might finally be my miracle cure. I believe I will get to a healthy weight eventually but more importantly I won't get type 2 diabetes like my mother.

I have never used a forum before and am amazed at how it as increased my motivation much more so than any WW meeting where I would have just listened and allowed others to speak.

Julia

14st 4lb, not been that for a couple of years.

Please forgive me for what i`m about to write' but from true observations.

I work in a secondary school and every day I see pupils arrive at school eating crisps or chocolate and/or drinking those new `energy drinks`. Many are low ability students from low income families. Again, sorry but my observation.

I do believe Stephen, your work needs to be with teaching parents how best to control their family eating habits and how to buy more healthy food (much cheaper than ready meals).

I wish you all best with your work. Let us know how you get on.

Hi Stephen, I happened on your thread and found it most interesting. I am in my late 70s and my childhood was during the scarcity of food in the WWII. I had a time of very little food at a terrible boarding school where we were always hungry. There were no fat children and we hunted anything to eat like chestnuts, blackberries and even hawthorn berries while out on exercise walks. I went days without eating because I just could not eat the food provided, it was so awful.
I grew up to be slim, healthy and very good at sport which became my profession. I only started getting fat after the birth of my son and have yo yoed through many diets. Finding 5:2 after watching the horizon programme seems to be working well so far and I think I can sustain it. I hope so anyway. Being at the opposite end of life I have wondered if the is anything detrimental about 5:2 for older people.

Your story of periods of hunger is indeed interesting. There are many studies to say our healthiest diet was during and after the Second World War.
I'm a paediatrician so you're way out of my age group. But
Drugs are significantly more complicated in the elderly (sorry) because the liver and kidneys may have deteriated and because the circulation may have historic changesa monst other factors.
There is a higher incidence of type 2 diabetes particular in the over weight.
So there is a reasonable chance, it will work well and indeed shoud have good effects on hormones and lipids. May be others on the sit will no more of your age group.
A fascinating challenge. Some GPs would be happy to comment on your overall health many wont be up to speed on bits of the scene out their. They are likely to be cautios. One might talk it cautiously and see how it feels.

Thanks Stephen, I am fairly lucky, not a diabetic, fairly healthy really. But want to lose weight to lower BP. I find the 5:2 very easy and I believe the older one gets the less one should eat anyway
May I say one thing though about children and 5:2 IF. I always thought I felt hungry but have realised it was in the mind. After three fasts I also realised how easy it would be for a youngster to become anorexic without absolute guidance and being overseen. I had always wondered how anorexics could go without eating but now I know it's possible. Me, I still love my food on feed days

Anxiety over anorexia is understandable.
For most of the patients I've met anorexia isn't about not feeling hungry
It's a more active process
They think all the time on food

[carorees]

I'm not a doctor but my reading of the science suggests that a lot of fasting or low carbing or reducing IGF1 too low may be detrimental in the long term. I would suggest that 5:2 is likely to be fine for older people but as with everything, moderation is important, so it would be wise not to be tempted to try ADF or 4:3 long term or have a very low carb diet apart from on fast days.

New user

Thanks Caroline, I absolutely agree with you and do not intend to do more than 5:2. Even carful on 5:2 but doing OK so far..

Hi Stephen,

I am interested in your training for Paris (which I ran in 1983 when a London place was not forthcoming). Do you do long training runs on fasting days, or the day after a feast? What sort of time do you anticipate for tha marathon? Are you making any allowance for the extra exercise in your fasting/feeding calories?

I ran marathons & halves in the eighties, then some ultra events in the hills in the nineties then had a long spell of Open University learning which precluded much exercise for 8 years. Having come off shift work onto days I found an office equipped with fit marathon runners & ironman triathletes who started dragging me out at lunchtimes for 5 - 6 mile runs, starting in 2008. By Dec 2009 I had built up to a half-marathon (Keyworth Turkey Trot) in 89:20, which in age-related terms (59.9 at the time) was my best-ever performance over the distance. Since then good performances have been few & far between due to the way my hips have started to give me trouble & limit the amount of distance work I can do. For the last 2 years wife & I have being doing parkrun every Saturday and I am using my times there as a gauge for how the diet is going. If times get worse consistently I will know to back off the diet but at the moment I am interested to see if the anti-inflammatory benefits of fasting (autophagy) really do live up to their promise.
Last week I did 22 miles on my bike during my Sunday fast & walked 8.5 miles on my Tuesday fast & felt OK for both but I only did local walks (2 - 4 miles) on my feed days with a view to having some reserves for Saturday. This worked well but I ran out of steam 2 minutes from the finish anyway! I do not usually run 2 days consecutively because it makes my hips very stiff but today I think I will give it a go, at a very steady pace.

Cheers,

Pete