The FastDay Forum

My main point was that it isn't really fair to say something isn't sustainable if you haven't ever tried it. Not that everyone should try ADF or that it would work for everyone.

I said that I didn't feel Weight Watchers or Atkins were sustainable FOR ME; but only after having tried them both myself. There are people who do use both of those plans, make it to goal and maintain the loss.

I have tried and failed at plans that I couldn't even make it to dinner time on the first day. Not every plan is going to work for every person. But, if you aren't open to trying new or different ideas; you may miss out on the plan that does work.

Sounds like she's trying to plug her own book. If they already met and altered the book according to her wishes but now she's trying to make further changes she sounds like she's just after more publicity.

This forum alone is more than enough evidence that the diet works for many people. That their appetites do shrink even if they aren't doing it alternate days. That people vary how they have their calories on the fast day etc etc etc.

There doesn't seem to be a week go by without someone bashing something about this diet.

I tried the IDF and I couldn't do it. I was bored out of my mind and I had to cut myself out from some events, which was not good.

Doing 4:3 (monday, tuesday and thursday), is better for me. One condition is to not touch at the weekends, beginning on fridays. Why ? Because I go out a lot or have people to eat at my house so it can't be sustainable but it's MY point of view. I found MY way of eating. Let's keep in mind that I plan to do it for the rest of my life, not only until I have lost all the weight I want to lose. I should reach my goal at the end of the year however I will keep doig my fasts for the rest of my life and would have no use of IDF.

I couldn't do this diet long term if I had to fast more than two days. I know myself. Why would anyone set themselves up on a diet they knew they would fail at. I don't agree that you have to try something to understand whether or not you could do. That's like saying you wont know if you like having a tattoo unless you have one.

People should do what suits them best and we should encourage them in what they choose to do. For me that's 5:2. For others it's whatever variation of fasting they have chosen. There is no right or wrong and people shouldn't be judged because they know their own willpower/bodies.

I have tried ADF but could not sustain it. I need a WOE that fits in with how I like to live. Hence I do 5:2/16:8 and either one meal on fast days or a liquid fast.

I think we are not communicating well...again I am NOT saying everyone needs to try a plan to know whether it would work. I am saying it is unfair to label plans "unsustainable" if you haven't tried them.

I have never tried the HCG plan and I am quite sure I wouldn't like it or do well on it without needing to try it. That doesn't mean the plan is not sustainable. It means it wouldn't work for me. The difference is that not sustainable implies that it wouldn't work for anyone, ever.

I have tried ADF for a week and just couldn't keep it up as I really find it hard to eat the day after a fast. There is no way I could eat 110% of my TDEE on the day after a fast. The second day after a fast I probably manage between 80% and 120% of my TDEE, so it balances out over the week to a defecit.

I now do every third day as I don't really have a weekend social life, so a fast on a Saturday or Sunday is no problem for me. But that is the advantage to this WOE, its adaptability. My son who happens to be a qualified chef, is also on the 3 day cycle with me. But this weekend he is away at a friends, and also spending two days at a food festival. So today's fast will not happen for him. But he already has two fast in this week.

If it hadn't been for Dr.Mosley I would never have heard about the benefits of fasting. I thought fasting was just for kooks, hippies and religious reasons. I would probably still be looking at myself in the mirror, miserable and worried about the future. With only two options, risk surgery when morbidly obese (thereby risking death) or not having surgery and becoming paralysed. The TV programme gave me a third option, a workable weight loss program that I could stick to for as long as I needed, therby meaning less risky surgery and a pain free, mobile, future.

I do acknowledge Dr. Varady's research, without it none of this would be possible. But I am betting that her book would have just been another 'fad' books that no one ever read, just like the other fasting books previous to Dr. Mosley's programme. As it is, when her book does come out, as the definitive research book on fasting, it will be a worldwide best seller and make her very rich. She shouldn't be complaining she should be thanking him for the free publicity it will give her book.

We are all different and we all make this WOL to fit our own lifestyle for me personally I do 4:3 I enjoy doing my 3 days and have always said I've not only found them easy but also enjoyable, I have tried the ADF a few times with no problems at all but choose 4:3 over it for sustainability.
Aso stated many times on this forum and the other that Dr M + Mimi
Have saved my life !! Truly I believe this to be so, I didn't see the original programme or any publicity at all ( must have been hibernating)
Nothing until a little comment by Mimi in her column so I googled the fasdt diet and sent for the book, started right away no planning whatsoever just did a trial day that was quickly followed by 2 more fasting days = 4:3 found this forum few days later and when you've found this forum you don't need to pay for the book even.
As someone else commented Dr M doesn't give much input
the horizon prog showed his studies and trials as his preference of 2 non consecutive days, he always stated where his info came from and named the various people in his book so he's not stepped out of line whatsoever
he just got lucky unlike her so now its catch-up time for Dr K and yes I do believe I'ts a publicity stunt to sell her book, I'm not saying i'm not buying the book but non of us on this WOL need to buy it as we've got all the info we need from Dr M yes our hero our god Sue

Popularizers are often "unpopular" with some of their peers. Some fellow academics didn't like the way that Isaac Asimov published a new "popular" science book almost every year. Many fellow astronomers weren't fond of Carl Sagan, either, professing to believe that "real" scientists didn't do TV programs or books aimed at ordinary people. Jealousy all around.

Having read Dr. Mosley's book and watched the documentary, I never thought he was trying to take credit for discovering intermittent fasting. He was just telling us about it and about how he's using it in his own life.

Thank you so much for replying. I haven't read all the posts yet, but after I post this, I will.

I felt funny after I posted, like wow I must sound like I'm trolling or bashing Dr. Mosley, but reading that interview it really affected me. I am very fat and unhealthy, and I want a science-based program that has been researched well.

I reread that interview with Dr. Varady, and I agree with her. Yeah, she has a book coming out, and that's probably part of it, but I got Dr. Mosley's book and really it is a hodgepodge in many ways. He does use all forms of intermittent fasting to support his 5:2 plan, and it can be very confusing, because as far as I know, there are NO 5:2 studies, either on animals or people. And for me at least, it was too easy to connect his 5:2 with all the intermittent fasting info in his book. And they are NOT connected.

And Dr. Harvie's two day diet studies - there are only two of those studies - Dr. Varady has ten years of research behind her with studies done on 500 people! In retrospect, after rereading her article, I'd be pissed off too.

So I am going to do the alternate day thing. I want something tested and researched. I don't think it will be any great hardship. BEING FAT IS A GREATER HARDSHIP! One thing I do want to know is Dr. Varady mentioned in that interview that she tested both 3 and 4 day fasting. So if a special event comes up and we want to fast only 3 days that week, is it just as effective? I hope she covers that in her book.

In any event, I am going to do this. Yes, I know I sound desperate, but I've gone from a very slim, healthy person to someone who is not, these last few years. It's ending now.

I'm going back to read all the posts now. Thanks for responding.

I did ADF for the first 10 weeks. TBH, just do 4:3 as it's more manageable with no day changes. I liked that I started with it, I got through all the stages (hunger, binging, not hungry) pretty quickly and it helped with discipline but it's no faster than 4:3. I lost a pound a week. I actually lost more for a while on 4:3 I think but it's hard to tell as I've got a fairly hefty exercise regime going on.

Having the weekends relaxed is important. The results on here show what can be done. Play with the Tracker for your demographic...

[Moogie]

Such a shame that these researchers & authors who are promoting very similar, effective methods can't get along.

I for one am very grateful to Dr Mosley for bringing this way of eating to the public eye, but also grateful to the researchers that enabled him to examine the method.

I'll buy the book for sure, but I don't think I could ADF for the simple reason of planning life around it, having to figure out ahead of time which days were fasts and which weren't. I'm sure there are plenty of people who find ADF sustainable though, and I certainly agree any form of IF is likely to be easier to stick with than conventional diets.

Moogie, what a voice of reason you are. Yeah, I guess in the end we all have to do what works best for us. I'm just grateful I read that interview with Varady. I didn't realize she had 10 years of research behind her and that so many people found it successful. That blew me away.

But the main thing is to get on the program, do it, and improve my health. And you're right. If you think you can't stick to a plan, you probably can't. I personally feel I can do this. So here goes!

[carorees]

The issue that no-one has raised so far is the question mark over detrimental effects of fasting, which we have yet to elucidate. ADF or 4:3 are more likely to have negative side effects than 5:2 just because they involve more fasting. But we don't know how much fasting is the optimal balance between positive and negative effects. If 5:2 is pretty much equivalent to 4:3 in weightloss, as our tracker data suggest, then I'd choose 5:2 over 4:3.

Interesting science-vs-medicine (idealistic pursuit of truth versus pragmatic pursuit of what works for a given patient) tension going on here.

I don't think "eat less and exercise more," in the same sense that carorees notes "losing weight is healthier than being obese," needs much more scientific study to establish its truth. What IF does for me is shows me HOW to eat less and manage hunger in the process, rather than tut-tutting at me that I'm a moral failure for not will-powering my way to good health.

One interesting thing I saw in the article, however, was this bit: "How much weight exactly? 'In general, people lose about 10-30 pounds in about eight weeks and after about six months, people lose on average about 25 pounds,' says Varady. 'The weight loss is at first dramatic and then peters off. The most anyone has lost in our studies is 55 pound after six months.'"

My experience is that I've lost 33 pounds in 36 weeks (0.9 lb/wk average) but the first 23 pounds came off in 16 weeks (1.4 lb/wk) and the last 10 pounds slowly dripped off over the last 20 weeks (0.5 lb/wk). Anecdotal evidence from this forum shows people getting frustrated in later stages of their weight loss programme, struggling to lose that last 10-20 pounds and complaining of "plateaus" and such.

Another thing from the article is the contrast between 5:2 and ADF and the day-after-fast hunger levels versus two days or even three days after fast that you could see in 5:2 depending on how flexible you get with your days. From a hunger-management standpoint, that was very interesting.

As an engineer and not a scientist, I tend to favor the more-pragmatic to the more-epistemic, so I guess I fall in Mosley's camp on this one. I, too, am very grateful that he made the media splash when he did and that I "fell" for it, however irresponsible it may have been from a scientific standpoint. I am MUCH healthier now than I was in January!