The FastDay Forum

Caroline, thank you so much for those links. Now that I'm 60 and my health is suffering, I am suddenly VERY interested in this research. Like I said, it's not just about losing weight for me. I want my health back. I can't ever remember feeling this serious about it. Something really clicked; the light bulb turned on! I guess it's my own mortality and turning 60 this year.

Thanks again.

Thanks from me too Caroline.

I find the suggestion that fasting in women may worsen glucose tolerance and insulin resistance worrying. I certainly noticed a big difference in my bg control on 5:2. Even when I went back to combining it with low carb I didn't fully regain list ground. I have been doing 16:8 now for some weeks and yet my bg is still not as good as it was on straight low carb.

I had hoped that fasting might help with my cognitive problems but they seem to be better if I stick with a regular ketogenic diet.

It hasn't been a dead loss as I have learned a lot about my eating habits and fasting has certainly improved those, but given that 5:2 also seemed to scoot my BP up after years of good control, I certainly wont be going down the ADF route however long it takes to shift the rest of the weight. I'm currently doing 16:8 for about 3 days a week along with LCHF and will see how that goes.

Regardless of (according to Dr. Varady) Dr. Mosley's misrepresentation of the ADF diet, I would have never heard about it, never had tried it and never had lost over 15 kg, had it not been for his Horizon programme. Since Dr. Varady has been conducting studies for ten years and most of the ADF proponents have only been around 1+ years, it seems as though Dr. Mosley did a fantastic job at getting this WOL into the minds of mainstream people.

I can certainly understand how Dr. Varady may be upset but I am deeply grateful to Dr. Mosley for giving me a new lease on life.

I am looking forward to reading the science section of her book. I'm too lazy to read the original research (I'm a scientist, but I do a very different type of science). I'm also glad it has a maintenance chapter. Too many diet books don't spend enough time on that, when clearly it's the most difficult thing.

MaryAnn, I totally agree about the maintenance thing. That's where I always messed up in the past, no matter what plan I followed. But this is something I feel I can live with, even if on occasion (due to social stuff) I do it 3 x a week instead of 4. In fact in Varady's interview she mentions the studies were done on "3 to 4 days a week" of fasting. In the book I hope she talks about the effectiveness of 3 days a week, if special occasions come up, etc. I'm thinking if done only once in a while, even 3 days will work.

Yeah, to have a whole chapter on maintenance is great. I'm glad she did/and from what I read on her facebook page, the studies are ongoing - on alternate day fasting and maintenance.

For anyone interested, for release end of December 2013:

The Every-Other-Day Diet by Dr. Krista Varady

Introduction - Welcome to the Every-Other-Day Diet. Cut back today - cut loose tomorrow!

Chapter 1
The New Science of Every-Other-Day Dieting
Study after study shows the Every-Other-Day Diet really works.

Chapter 2
Diet Day
500 calories is easy - when it's every-other-day

Chapter 3
Feast Day
Eat all you want and anything you want - and keep losing weight!

Chapter 4
Every-Other-Day-Dieting Quick and Easy
These lunch and dinner recipes are only 400 calories - but they taste like a million!

Chapter 5
Every-Other-Day-Dieting, Without Lifting a Finger
Make your life simple: try pre-prepared 400 calorie cuisine on Diet Day.

Chapter 6
Every-Other-Day Dieting and Exercise
A powerful combo - for faster weight loss, a leaner body and a stronger heart.

Chapter 7
Every-Other-Day Against Heart Disease
Forget about tasteless low fat diets - if you want to reverse risk factors for heart disease, eat all you want, every other day.

Chapter 8
The Every-Other-Day Success Program - the science proven way to keep the weight off
Four out of five dieters gain back their weight. You won't be one of them.

Thanks for that, Teatime. Don't want to re-ignite the controversy but I must say I'm a bit dismayed to find Dr V's chapter headings read very much like those in countless other diet books. Don't know why I thought it would be different but I did.

I don't think that 500 people are a big enough panel to draw real conclusions. Everybody is different and reacts differently. I am quite sure that if I ate everything I wanted on "feast day" (god I hate that term) I wouldn't have lost like I did and it would be logical in the sense that I would eat a lot more that what I burn.

So I found MY key, which works for me. My analysis are great, better than when I was 20, my cholesterol, which was just to the limit, couldn't be lower, I have a lot of energy and can do sports again, which I couldn't for a lot of reasons. Will it stay that way ? I am sure it will be even better because I have a lot more control but fasting is not a drug for me, I don't need it so if my GP tells me I should stop, I will and will try to find something else that makes me feel great.

MaryAnn, I totally agree about the maintenance thing. That's where I always messed up in the past, no matter what plan I followed. But this is something I feel I can live with, even if on occasion (due to social stuff) I do it 3 x a week instead of 4. In fact in Varady's interview she mentions the studies were done on "3 to 4 days a week" of fasting. In the book I hope she talks about the effectiveness of 3 days a week, if special occasions come up, etc. I'm thinking if done only once in a while, even 3 days will work.

Yeah, to have a whole chapter on maintenance is great. I'm glad she did/and from what I read on her facebook page, the studies are ongoing - on alternate day fasting and maintenance.

The reason Dr Varady says 3 to 4 days a week is because ADF or alternate day fasting literally means every other day, EOD. So, by starting on Monday the first week you would fast on Mon, Wed, Fri, Sun...but the second week you would fast on Tues, Thursday, Sat. Then, it continues in a two week pattern. MWFSu week 3 TuThSa week 4. So, you fast 4 days, then 3 days continuing on and on with no set fast days. The problem is it is harder to plan social events, holidays, or anything in advance and it is harder to switch up days when you have something planned.

To adjust the schedule some people will do a half fast and others will just do two nonfast days in a row. But, then your whole schedule following the half fast or the two nonfasts has changed and if you made any plans in advance they are also now on the wrong day. This was the biggest problem for me with ADF and why I went first to always MWF fasts and a half fast on Sunday and then later just 4:3 with MWF fasts.

What she said about maintenance in the interview was this:

During our interview, for every question I ask Varady replies with ‘Oh we did a study on that.’ For example, what happens after they’ve lost their weight? – ADF doesn’t exactly sound like a way of life. ‘Obese subjects that lost the weight with ADF are actually able to keep it off by doing a modified ADF where they consume 1000 calories over two meals instead of 500 over one,’ she says.

Also re: what Caroline says about the length of her studies: she mentions an average weight loss over six months (25 lbs). I wonder if that is from something which has not yet been published.

[carorees]

Yes...I'm hoping that's going to be published soon! plus the one on splitting cals over several meals that she mentions...

What she said about maintenance in the interview was this:

During our interview, for every question I ask Varady replies with ‘Oh we did a study on that.’ For example, what happens after they’ve lost their weight? – ADF doesn’t exactly sound like a way of life. ‘Obese subjects that lost the weight with ADF are actually able to keep it off by doing a modified ADF where they consume 1000 calories over two meals instead of 500 over one,’ she says.

Also re: what Caroline says about the length of her studies: she mentions an average weight loss over six months (25 lbs). I wonder if that is from something which has not yet been published.

Well that sounds very like what I'm sort of doing I.e. 24 hour fast and under 30g carbs on Monday, then 17/7 on Tuesday/Thursday/Saturday (which becomes 1000 cals and under 80g carbs when I do it properly), eat within TDEE (mine is currently 1500 cals) and under 100g carbs other days.
Sounds oppressively disciplined when written down!

Whatever she may have said about Dr. M, I hope everyone here appreciates that Dr. Varady is apparently doing all the right experiments!

Read the article but to me she just sounds bitter.

Every other day fasting will suit some people and to them good luck. Personally it's to regimented and I know that I would burn out within days never mind weeks.

What I love most about this WOL is that it's flexible and NOT one size/type fits all.

So everyone should just continue to do what they feel is best for them. I will stick with 5:2 for now anyway

[carorees]

I don't see that intermittent fasting has to mean sticking to a fixed schedule. As Alexandra says, the flexibility of 5:2 is one of its greatest attractions. However, I think that ADF or 4:3 can also be flexible if you don't get too hung up about having to fit in your 3 or 4 fasts every week. It's good to have a baseline plan...which applies on 'normal' weeks and then not to worry too much if something gets in the way or you have to change days around. With 5:2 you can usually fit in two fasts a week by jiggling things, with 4:3 or ADF sometimes you won't be able to do all the scheduled fasts but if you remember that people do lose weight on 5:2, it should not be too stressful! So you can aim to do 3 or 4 fasts but be determined to fit at least 2 in.

What I'd really would like to know is if ADF is significantly better than 5:2 for long term health benefits, once you've reached and maintain a healthy weight. Is it worth it to increase your fasting frequency if you have no need to lose weight and maintaining is not a problem?

I suspect Dr Varady will not make a study with a thourough answer to this question though.

If the answer would be that 5:2 is "good enough" - further propelling the reputation of someone who happened to show up and get a lot of attention by using your work would be a lot to ask of anyone.