The FastDay Forum

I still maintain that setting aside days of week to fast makes it easier. Whether its 4:3 ot 5:2, i just look at my computer or calendar and know that i fast on
sunday
Tuesday
Friday

nothing can be simpler
Yes, its flexible too cause last week i could only manage Sunday and Thursday due to social obligations.

If i had to wake up and remember if i fasted for last 1 day or 2 days (for the 3 day cycle version) it would send me crazi(er)

Still think Dr. M is God of the IF dieting world even if it is just because of the media attention. And television speaks to the masses. And quite frankly the masses are unhealthy, overweight and unfortunately on average, obese, in the western world.

Well in the beginning I was very interested in the science, so read anything Icould find that Varady had written. Hence like Maryann i did 4:3. I don't think u can compare forum stats between 4:3 and 5:2 as there are too many variables. However u can compare each method as an individual. I don't lose weight on 5:2 but do on 4:3 could be because i wasn't that overweight to begin with. I do 5:2 for maintenance and I seem to stay stable. As for the benef, I will get blood tests soon,but I do think it's healthier to have lost thmethod ht. I agree with tjose eho said without Mosley I wouldn't have heard of it or lost the weight. I'm happy.

I'm afraid I don't really care what people do. I'm in favour of whatever works. People don't like the placebo effect for things. If it works and doesn't do harm or cost a fortune it is good. If any diet helps people become healthy it is good. I agree that I she probably is just upset that Mosely beat her to it and is popular. But he is so easy to listen to that he would still have got credit even if her book came out first. I like the science but I like the personal results better.

I know if I were to do 4:3 I would fail. I just couldn't do it. 5:2 is completely doable for me and I'm losing weight. Each to their own.

[carorees]

The negative studies on fasting are almost all, unsurprisingly in rats! From memory, an ADF protocol found deposition of triglyceride in myocardium and ventrical wall stiffening ain ter 6 months. But as I've pointed out before, if you take into account the faster metabolic rate of a rat, ADF is like alternate week fasting for us, so we can't tell if the benefits or disadvantages will happen in humans.

The human study showing poorer glucose metabolism after a 20 hour (I think) fast is often quoted as a reason not to do IF long term. However, normal glucose metabolism was restored quickly after the fast so on a 5:2 protocol, one would imagine that normal glucose metabolism would dominate the week. The flaw (or one of the flaws) of these studies is that they take people who are unaccustomed to fasting, impose a fast and then assume that their observations would hold true if fasting was repeated regularly. That cannot be assumed, especially as we experience adaptation in terms of how we feel so it is logical to consider that a metabolic adaptation is also occurring. Whether that means an improved or worsened glucose response on refeeding, we don't know.

In summary, my position is that while more fasting (4:3 or ADF) may bring faster weight loss and so probably better blood work due to weightloss , we have no idea whether fasting in any of the protocols we're discussing will long term be good or bad for us. So I'm advocating focusing on weightloss achieved through whatever means works best and fits in best with your life. Long term we need to monitor our health and keep our weight under control .

We really need a study looking at followers of the Islamic faith who have practiced Monday and Thursday fasting for years compared with those who only fast during Ramadan, but I've not found one yet!

[carorees]

P.S. the studies I mention are all reviewed in the 5:2 lab. I'll try to add links when I'm at my desk (still abed atm!)

Update...here are the links to the studies I mentioned plus some other interesting studies on intermittent fasting

In rodents:
ADF in rats affects heart muscle: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20932467
ADF in rats increases triglyceride deposition in adipose tissue: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21996045
ADF improves heart function in rats with congestive heart failure: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19059263
ADF in mice reduced serum glucose and insulin levels and increased resistance of neurons in the brain to stress: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12724520
ADF improves brain function in mice: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23755298

In humans
Impaired glucose tolerance in women following ADF: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15833943
Insulin resistance associated with fasting: http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/302/2/E190
A 5:2 format fasting improved the blood results of older healthy men: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24044618
The two-day diet (Harvie et al): http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23591120

And to complete the picture here are links to the studies by Dr Varady:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23171320
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23113919
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20880415
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22889512
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20815899
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19793855
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23612508
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21767400
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20300080
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23712283
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23408502
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19375762
As far as I can tell the longest of Dr Varady's studies is 12 weeks. However, the article link in the OP makes it sound like there may be some more papers out soon.

For those who are interested, there's lots more in the 5:2 lab, especially if you go back in time a bit as I spent quite a time researching what was known about fasting etc earlier in the year.

I didnt know about the Monday , Thursday thing for Muslims.

I wiki'd it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasting#Islam

and they also suggest voluntary ADF as one of the "types of fasting"

Their fast is not for weight loss though some seem to cite a "body/personal cleansing" reason in their worship of Allah

to quote wiki article

For some Muslims, fasting may inculcate a sense of fraternity and solidarity, as they believe they are feeling and experiencing what their needy and hungry brothers and sisters are feeling.

The Siyam (fast) is intended to teach Muslims patience and self-control, and to remind them of the less fortunate in the world. Faithful observance of the Siyam (fast) is believed to atone for personal faults and misdeeds, at least in part, and to help earn a place in paradise. It is also believed to be beneficial for personal conduct, that is, to help control impulses, passions and temper. The fast is also meant to provide time for meditation and to strengthen one's faith.

I'm afraid I don't really care what people do. I'm in favour of whatever works. People don't like the placebo effect for things. If it works and doesn't do harm or cost a fortune it is good. If any diet helps people become healthy it is good. I agree that I she probably is just upset that Mosely beat her to it and is popular. But he is so easy to listen to that he would still have got credit even if her book came out first. I like the science but I like the personal results better.

I do like that other than buying a book for a couple of pounds I have not had to fork out any money for any weekly weigh in club, accompanying literature, branded products, raffle/weekly draw, or sit through some discussion which they try to vary every week.

Plus I actually buy less shopping so the food bill has gone down.

At a push I didn't even need to buy the book. This forum has so much information on it. However I didn't discover this forum until I'd been doing the diet a couple of weeks.

My partner fasts regularly for more than 30 years (it's him who made me look for informations about fasting and, in the process, find out about 5:2)and, at 55, he looks 10 years younger. His blood test is excellent and, even if I told him he was crazy at first, I have to admit it's what works for him. And not for 2 or 3 years but for 30 something years...

So I trust it can be good, even without the research.

Silverdarling, actually, as a serial dieter, I KNOW the tough part is yet to come, and no, I don't think you're being condescending at all.

I honestly don't think doing this every other day will be any harder than counting those damnnn Weight Watchers points or counting calories every single day. And speaking of counting calories every single day, I notice that a lot of folks on 5:2 are doing that because they say they won't lose if they don't. Dr. Varady made it very clear in her post that you can eat freely, whatever you want, even high fat food on your feast day, without counting anything, and you will lose. Her studies on over 500 people are living proof - not rats or mice; people.

For anyone interested I'm going to post the table of contents of her book in my next post, which I got off facebook. The chapters sound very interesting, and I already have it on preorder for the end of December.

I definitely plan on hanging around this forum. It is the most intelligent, friendliest forum I've ever been on! So, no, believe me, I don't take any offense to different opinions at all.

For anyone interested, for release end of December 2013:

The Every-Other-Day Diet by Dr. Krista Varady

Introduction - Welcome to the Every-Other-Day Diet. Cut back today - cut loose tomorrow!

Chapter 1
The New Science of Every-Other-Day Dieting
Study after study shows the Every-Other-Day Diet really works.

Chapter 2
Diet Day
500 calories is easy - when it's every-other-day

Chapter 3
Feast Day
Eat all you want and anything you want - and keep losing weight!

Chapter 4
Every-Other-Day-Dieting Quick and Easy
These lunch and dinner recipes are only 400 calories - but they taste like a million!

Chapter 5
Every-Other-Day-Dieting, Without Lifting a Finger
Make your life simple: try pre-prepared 400 calorie cuisine on Diet Day.

Chapter 6
Every-Other-Day Dieting and Exercise
A powerful combo - for faster weight loss, a leaner body and a stronger heart.

Chapter 7
Every-Other-Day Against Heart Disease
Forget about tasteless low fat diets - if you want to reverse risk factors for heart disease, eat all you want, every other day.

Chapter 8
The Every-Other-Day Success Program - the science proven way to keep the weight off
Four out of five dieters gain back their weight. You won't be one of them.

As weight loss is no longer my primary goal, my interest lies in the health benefits of different IF protocols: which will produce the best health results for me (not simply related to being a healthy weight). As far as I can see, the best (and only?) research here is with ADF.

I lost weight successfully on 5:2 and dramatically improved my health as a result (thank you Dr M!), but now I need to look more at the scientific research around health advantages of 5:2 vs 4:3 vs ADF et al.

Bssh, I'm so interested in the science as well. I'm at the age where if I don't get serious about my health, it's truly downhill from here. I just don't want to lose weight, I want to be the healthiest I can be, I guess that's why I'm now so interested in the alternate day thing.

[carorees]

These are some good starting points for this interested in the science. The longest published studies in humans with ADF or 5:2 are only 12 weeks so we don't know what effect continuing this for life will have.

In rodents:
ADF in rats affects heart muscle: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20932467
ADF in rats increases triglyceride deposition in adipose tissue: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21996045
ADF improves heart function in rats with congestive heart failure: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19059263
ADF in mice reduced serum glucose and insulin levels and increased resistance of neurons in the brain to stress: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12724520
ADF improves brain function in mice: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23755298

In humans
Impaired glucose tolerance in women following ADF: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15833943
Insulin resistance associated with fasting: http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/302/2/E190
A 5:2 format fasting improved the blood results of older healthy men: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24044618
The two-day diet (Harvie et al): http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23591120

And to complete the picture here are links to the studies by Dr Varady:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23171320
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23113919
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20880415
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22889512
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20815899
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19793855
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23612508
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21767400
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20300080
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23712283
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23408502
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19375762
As far as I can tell the longest of Dr Varady's studies is 12 weeks. However, the article link in the OP makes it sound like there may be some more papers out soon.

For those who are interested, there's lots more in the 5:2 lab, especially if you go back in time a bit as I spent quite a time researching what was known about fasting etc earlier in the year.

Thanks for all your input Caroline, like others I wanted EVERYTHING, weight loss, everlasting life, healthy at 100 years old, lottery win (more than £10, actually, a LOT more than £10!) and now I have lost the weight my focus is on being as healthy as is possible for a clapped out old ballet dancer with knackered feet and sore joints hence, I'm still here on this wonderful forum with others who want to do the best we can for our poor abused bodies.

All your hard work on finding and bringing to attention those wonderful articles which help us To make sensible decisions are very welcome, I'm too lazy and not savvy enough to find them myself, so, THANK YOU,

Ballerina x