The FastDay Forum

It depends which food group you eliminate I suppose. I don't think the body would suffer if sugar was eliminated, but of course to cut it out completely would mean no fruit, alcohol etc. Of course some veg contains sugar, especially root veg...dairy has sugar...
I think cutting down on sugar is prudent, but total elimination, in all its forms is a step too far and it could possibly lead to an unhealthy approach to food.
Cutting out fat completely would, apart from leaving very few foods to eat, be harmful as our bodies need fat to function.
If you don't suffer from a medical condition that precludes you from sugar why not enjoy it in its various forms, fruit, chocolate etc.
It's back to the old adage of a LITTLE of what you fancy...
Yes, agree that moderation is best.

Now some might wanna hit me, but I once had a doctor who had a friend who was MD in nutrition and he said that diet drinks don't do anything different that sugary ones for your weight. The brain has no clue if it's artificial or real sugar that goes into your system and acts alike no matter what. He also said that non-fat products was no good either, it's way much better to eat small amounts of the real thing. He had had a patient who went onto his diet program, followed it rigorously and didn't loose a kg. When delving into this, he found that she had (on her own) cut of all fat. He told her to take a tbs olive oil each day and she started to loose weight almost immediately.

My experience with 5:2 is that my palate has changed and sweet things taste way to sweet...well most things tastes more than before. Maybe my tastebuds have shrunk as well

... I am not prepared to get into a debate on this, we have been there before. The proof is in the pudding. ...

Oh I'm sorry. I didn't realise you weren't looking for opinions unless they align with your own "toxic sugar" theory. I mistook this for a forum.

Yet another thread hi-jacked that could have been interesting for like minded people, like I said we have been here before, it's all been said i.e. not cutting food groups, everything in moderation, yawn yawn.
It hasn't helped the original poster at all who asks if anyone else was eating the low sugar way and fasting.

Chris

In any case.. 5:2 suggests fasting on 2 days a week and eating "normally" on other days not changing what you eat at all (thought being cognizant of your TDEE) Thus on the 5 days a week (or 4 days for me) you eat whatever you normally eat including sugar. (im hanging out for the carrot cake that i didnt have today cause it was fast day)

Indeed its the beauty and sustainability of 5:2 we dont need to eat like rabbits or stop all sweet things or drop a food group on other days be it fat or sugar or wheat or anything. Or this is how I understand the philosophy behind the book/documentary that started all of this.

I guess variations on the theme are "allowed" even condoned by most of the forum people as long as it doesnt imply that theres something wrong with plain vanilla 5:2

[carorees]

I think one needs to be clear when talking about sugar and whether one does or does not eat it, as to whether "sugar" means all sugars (fructose, lactose, glucose, sucrose etc etc) or, what most lay people think of as sugar, which is to say sucrose and possibly glucose. Otherwise it's easy to end up talking at cross-purposes!

Ah, yes, Caro. A good rule for any discussion: "define our terms"

I'm quite drawn to the idea of giving up all sources of refined sugar.

Over the past 18 months I've been practicing IF, I've found myself more and more thinking about how our ancestors lived. They hunted for food, went without, made a kill or found food, and feasted.

So I fast once or twice a week - just as they must have done.

As well as this I often don't eat breakfast or lunch - and then have a meal without regard to calories - just as they would have done.

And I have the occasional feast day, when I absolutely stuff myself - just as they must have done.

I eat mainly vegetables - well, being a vegan, make that only vegetables - which would have been their main source of food.

I also exercise regularly, with short periods of HIT and longer periods of running or walking - just as they must have done.

I also shower with cold water daily - apart from the occasional happening on some hot springs, the vast majority of our ancestors would only have had access to cold water.

BUT - I don't emulate them when it comes to my sugar intake! I eat biscuits, cake, chocolate, etc, pretty much daily (not when I'm fasting, obviously). Whereas the only source of sweetness for them, apart from fruit, would have been the occasional feast of honey when they came across a beehive.

This, and the over-use of my frying-pan, are areas I need to work on.

Must go back and read Lustig again! Seems to me that refined sugar (food group? That's not a food group!) is something that would benefit all of us.

I do not understand how someone could possibly cut out sugars entirely and be healthy. What I mean is sugars are in fruits and vegetables. Carbs convert to sugar. Am I wrong here? I have worked hard and have been successful in eliminating all added sugar. I almost always cook from scratch at home, no soda, no alcohol I truly am a bore! But an apple? Come on...

Exactly, claremarie. No one is ever, ever going to convince me that fruit is not a healthy food choice. If these people like Sarah Wilson are all cutting out fruits and some vegetables because they have the 'toxic sugar', what the heck are they replacing them with?

Balance and moderation. As always.

The body is an amazing thing. It can be quite healthy without carbs and sugar. When there is none available; it will derive what it needs from protein. Slower process but it converts the protein and gets what it needs. That being said going completely sugar free is a nice idea in theory. But, in practice I just get to the point where I.must.have.something.sweet. I limit almost all sugar to weekends. But, I can say with absolute certainty that without the ability to have a little chocolate once or twice a week and pizza on the weekend; I personally would have quit this plan long ago like all the others I quit before it. I believe sugar is addictive, even sugar from fruits can be bad if you are diabetic or insulin resistant as I am (or was when I started.)

For what it is worth, you don't have to eliminate all fruit to be low carb/low sugar because lemon, lime and grapefruit have very little sugar. Berries are also lower in sugar than most of the other fruits.

This link came from a March post
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/mar/20/sugar-deadly-obesity-epidemic

some good excerpts

It is not a case of eradicating sugar from the diet, just getting it down to levels that are not toxic, he says

The American Heart Association in 2009 published a statement, of which Lustig was a co-author, saying Americans consumed 22 teaspoons of it a day. That needs to come down to six for women and nine for men.

"That's a reduction by two thirds to three quarters. Is that zero? No. But that's a big reduction. That gets us below our toxic threshold.


Our livers have a capacity to metabolise some fructose, they just can't metabolise the glut that we've been exposed to by the food industry. And so the goal is to get sugar out of foods that don't need it, like salad dressing, like bread, like barbecue sauce." There is a simple way to do it. "Eat real food."


...added sugar is often disguised in food labelling under carbohydrates and myriad different names, from glucose to diastatic malt and dextrose. Fructose – contained in many different types of sugar – is the biggest problem, and high-fructose corn syrup, used extensively by food manufacturers in the US, is the main source of it.


AND one interesting one about calories and calorie counting.. touching on a thought ive had for ages about just what we eat on fast or feast days

Cutting calories is not the answer because "a calorie is not a calorie". The effect of a calorie in sugar is different from the effect of a calorie in lean grass-fed beef. And

I think one needs to be clear when talking about sugar and whether one does or does not eat it, as to whether "sugar" means all sugars (fructose, lactose, glucose, sucrose etc etc) or, what most lay people think of as sugar, which is to say sucrose and possibly glucose. Otherwise it's easy to end up talking at cross-purposes!

I often say I've eliminated all sugar from my diet (to keep my candida problem under control) and that really is lazy language (and thinking). What I mean is that I no longer (for 8 years now) eat products with added sugar - so no cakes, biscuits, chocolates (that one was tough) or puddings (I mean desserts!) in any form. The discovery of sugar-free chocolate was a boon but it has seriously anti-social effects.

I eat other carbs (bread, pasta, brown rice) but do better if I don't (other than the brown rice, which seems to be ok) - I'm trying to move back to a low-carb WOE because I used to feel so well on it, but I find it hard (because of practicalities like not being able to grab a sandwich on the go).

I pretend I don't know there's sugar in alcohol but if I binge my candida symptoms come raging back and my body lets me know in no uncertain terms. A few drinks occasionally seems fine.

I developed an allergy to some fruit at the same time as the candida problem (there's a clear link in my mind but I pretty much got laughed out of my GP's surgery when I suggested it) but I love fruit and eat all the ones I can still tolerate (berries, citrus family, melons, grapes) with no ill-effects.

The point of all this rambling was just to reinforce the point Caroline and others made - sugars are different and I think people have to make individual choices about which, if any, sugars they want to avoid and how their bodies respond. As with so many other things, there is no one rule fits all.

On another thread CreakyPete recommended another blog by Dr Peter Attia to me.

He has a great article about sugar worth noting.

http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/is-sugar-toxic

Thanks for your discussion. If you look into it, you are not cutting sugar out totally, just the sugars your body doesn't need. So it doesn't mean giving up fruit entirely - but fruit in concentrated form like dried fruits or fruit juice is way too much.

To answer Rawkaren, I eat as simply as possible. Protein, wholegrain carb bread, lots of vegetables and wholemilk products. I am still getting my head around it, but having eaten low-carb for years before discovering 5:2, it isn't too hard. I went a bit overboard on the fun foods at first cause the advice was eat anything you like on the non-fast days. Since I have only eaten sweet stuff when I was being "bad", including bread, I went a bit over the top. Now I have decided to "quit" sugar I have decided no more splurging, no cheating. It is all about health for me, as I have almost reached my target weight.

And, sorry, but I don't think it is really nice calling Sarah Wilson a nutjob. She has a lot of useful hints and cookbooks and good on her for making a lot of people aware they are eating way too much sugar and helping them ease off. Mia Freedman is entitled to her opinion too, but she is very thin and probably doesn't get it.

Quote from a post I made on 28 July referring to the fact that I used to eat lots of chocolate nearly every day before starting 5:2 in April "I am eating far more nutritious and balanced food now and have lots of energy. Looking back, I think my excessive consumption of chocolate was a real challenge to my body trying to cope with a sudden rush of sugar and my blood sugar levels were all over the place".

I believe it is the added sugars in our food and drink that cause the problems,however, I no longer eat fruit every day but I do eat a banana once a week.