The FastDay Forum

Like MichaelH, I too am rather struggling with the sensorious tone regarding the old-school binging / starving theme.

The naturally skinny people that I know balance their eating so that if they've scoffed a lot one day they tend to just eat supper the next. Surely that's common sense, not some sort of eating disorder, as is implied by bits in this thread?

I guess it particularly gets to me as this is essentially what I'll be doing once on maintenance because, yes, I intend to continue with my 4.5 : 2.5 along with low-carbing for the health benefits - in particular 'anti-dementia'. Thus I'll be munching well above my caloric requirements some days (call it binging if you must) in order that I can repair (i.e. very low calorie intake) on others without turning into a skeleton. Are you really suggesting that such a WoE is an eating disorder?

Anorexia and bulimia are mental illnesses manifested in disordered eating. Pragmatically managing one's caloric intake and looking after ones health don't strike me as being evidence of mental illness *at all*.

Everything you've said fatdog

It makes sense on every level to me, health, practical, social, to eat freely when you want to, and then eat nothing at other times to balance up. Not a sign of a problem, but of living life fully, and caring for yourself too.

[carorees]

Can I also refer folk to this thread: the-5-2-lab-f10/topic5945.html in which I highlight a paper that theorizes a benefit from alternating famine with feast in order to promote mitochondrial health. Dysfunctional mitochondria have been cited as a feature in all kinds of diseases, most notably ME/chronic fatigue syndrome.

[wildmissus]

Just read through all the posts and it occurred to me that my definition of binging has changed since I started this WOL. When I first read this topic I thought, yes I still binge but when I considered my eating habits say a year ago I realise that I don't binge any more.

In the past I have eaten snack foods until I've been sick - foolish but not an eating disorder. Now I occasionally overeat until I feel uncomfortably full - not the same thing and not a problem.

I have never binged, just eaten too much sometimes but I find that now I am unable to eat and drink as much as I used to. We went away for the weekend last week and I rather overdid it with the red wine on Friday night. Man, I was so sick on Saturday morning and didn't fancy much else to eat for the rest of the weekend I won't be doing that again in a hurry! Still, it kept the weight down as I suppose I semi fasted for the whole weekend due to over indulging. Stupid, stupid, stupid but lesson learned! Anyway, we had a great time

I'm another one who doesn't binge (=lack of control) but overeats occasionally (=in control) yet my overeating is minor compared to my pre-fasting days. I often overeat these days due to physical hunger or simply because I'm in a sociable situation and simply enjoying my food. It's normal and very different from binging.

Just wanted to clarify that earlier in the thread when I mentioned feeling poorly or getting sick it was in reaction to eating more carbs than usual not because I stuffed myself or binged until I got sick. Before 4;3 and maybe in the first month on plan, I used to eat until I was over full sometimes but I have never been a binge eater. Defintely not to the level some are talking about here which I would associate with bulimia or an eating disorder. I do not like that over full, heavy feeling and this WOE has helped me by changing my appetite and my tolerance for eating past full.

Lil Smiler

You listed your food 'binge' - was that your whole day's intake or was it all in one go? If it's your whole day then that doesn't look like a binge to me, just someone eating heartily. I can eat loads at weekends and yes sometimes I feel a bit guilty but I'm really trying to get away from this feeling of guilt with eating lots - it gives food too much power over us and how we feel. Sometimes your body just wants more food and I think that has to be ok. Yes ideally it would all be nutritionally perfect but it doesn't always work that way - and lets face it, the reason crisps, chocolate, bread and cakes exist is cos they taste so good! Like carorees said it can sometimes boost metabolism to eat more some days - when I was doing weight watchers years ago I don't think I ever stuck to my points every single day and sometimes (not always) the weeks I had biggest losses were the ones I slunk onto the scales feeling guilty at my greedy weekend!

If it was all in one go then yes that was probably quite a lot - I'm quite impressed!

Hello

That was from say 1PM through til midnight so kind of spread out. I was so full I could barely move but it was sooo yummy.

With regards to the topic I do hope I haven't caused any offence.
My opening post was meant to be unbiased and I was really hoping not to single anyone out. I thought I'd kept it balanced with room for discussion but apparently not :/ I wasn't judging anyone's eating habits or anything remotely similar. I feel like I got unjustifiably shot down for starting this 'debate' with some of those reponses.

Lil

LilSmiler, I didn't take offence. I think the discussion has proven fruitful. It's good to hear the differences between binging and overeating and people's different approaches to both. I am glad this thread has unfurled as it has

I think the difference in perception about what constitutes bingeing is fascinating in its own right, and probably says a lot about our culture. I don't think anyone was offended. It's a good topic and has generated a lot of discussion.

Very interesting topic, not offensive at all.

I thought a lot about it and I believe I would tend to be on the starving side, not the binging one. When I feel stressed, for example, I eat very little and only because I have a "I have to do it for my safety" switch.

Still have "fatty food" like pizza twice a month but a not in the same portions as before. The same for carbs. One of the key is I learned to REALLY listen to my body and to obey it, in a sense.

And it's difficult to binge when your body tells you "I am full and if you keep going, everything in will go out and it won't be pretty"

I agree, very interesting discussion. I wonder if what is influencing all of our thinking, consciously and subconsciously is the constant advice that we have all been exposed to from the diet industry over the years.
Many of us have tried many main stream diets, and read a lot of dietary advice. Our life long pursuit of weight loss has been underpinned, certainly in my case by mantras such as
- breakfast is the most important meal
- eat small frequent meals
- get most of your energy from complex carbs
And these are all things that this way of life is not advising!!
And we are no longer following the the mainstream thinking around what constitutes a healthy diet. We must have an eating disorder!
I am struggling some times to adjust my thinking. This thing we do, this cycle of changing your eating to manage the times when you eat a lot with times where you eat a little to make up for it has been described as disordered eating. We still feel a little guilty about that.
There have also been threads that talk about the response of friends and family and reluctance to talk about it because of their negative response. Another side of the same coin.
The shocked look on some peoples faces when I tell them how I have lost weight is priceless, as is their assertion that they could never do it and that am I sure I dont have an eating disorder

@juliewil10,you are so right! the 5:2 WOE turns
our preconceived dieting advice on its head in many respects. When I have tried to explain to overweight, dieting friends how I manage to stay slim by cutting out breakfast and fasting occasionally they react with horror and tell me they could never do that. If they want to continue counting points/syns/calories/low fat, stressing over 'green' and 'red' days, denying themselves the pleasures of eating good, healthy and satisfying meals then so be it.

I do think that we are all much more aware of eating disorders, especially amongst younger impressionable females eager to be as stick thin as some so-called celebs, but 5:2 offers a sustainable way of letting rip with food when we want/need to and compensating by fasting.
Just my two pennorth worth anyway!

Oh well, I guess it was a bit offensive, since the original question and most replies seemed based on the assumption that eating less or nothing one day to be able to eat a lot more another day was a bad thing to feel guilty about, bordering on the anorectic/bulimic territory, rather than rational behaviour. The main difference should be if your "binge" or "starvation" is planned or not. Like you should handle your finances, you spend and you save according to budget.

I've met similar reactions to my zero calorie fasts <-> weekend feasts before, and I'll probable hear it again.

A good discussion, hopefully it cleared out some very common misconceptions.

It has turnout out to be a great Thread @LilSmiler agree everything has been turned on its head with 5:2 and it seems like overeating some days and some fasts seem like starving, but when it is counted all we are most doing IF in the acceptable parameters