The FastDay Forum

Shoalhaven is beautiful - I have a friend who lives there. We are being very lucky with the weather - hope it lasts! Cold in the mornings tho when I leave @ 5.30 to get the train to Sydney, will have to get used to it - I have only moved back up here 4.5 mths ago...saw a girl asleep on the train in one of those blanket things with arms - may need to take one of those with me LOL

Yes autumn my favourite. Sounds like fun blanket thingy haven't seen one yet!

Think they were called snuggies - height of fashion - not LOL

Just googled looks like a baby sleeping bag, along the same vein as onesies.
Winter might be mild yet!

I've just read the whole 3 pages on this post and most of you said exactly what I was thinking all along - that is

"Maybe we didn't really want to know" -

we came into this thinking we could fast on approx. 500 cals 2 days a week and eat fairly moderately the rest of the time - we didn't have to count and be on a permanent diet, etc. etc. This was the answer to our prayers and a way of life we could live with. Don't spoil it all with TDEE and 25% going well below 500 and on and on - just let us enjoy our small weight loss each week and maybe we will be happy with that - what do you say ????

lovemyparrot - yes! it was all getting too difficult for me. However I can understand if someone is struggling and is eating HUGE amounts of food on feed days maybe they need a wake up call...re TDEE, then that's what they need. We are all different and although I think I eat what I want on feed days and don't 'moderate' my intake, I guess my usual (normal) eating isn't so full of cals. eg I have a friend who says she finds it hard to stop eating - I find it hard to stop eating something sweet. BTW checked my TDEE for start weight & now weight - 70 cals the difference - not a lot

Yes, absolutely agree. However, now I know what my TDEE is, just for a week I am tracking my calories on MFP just to see what I am actually consuming on an 'eat what you like' for 5 days diet. I started on Thursday (my fasting day) and have gone completely over the top on Friday and Saturday. No surprises there am going to continue counting for the week and seeing as I have been losing a steady 1lb a week I am hoping to see that by the end of it I will have consumed less than my TDEE. If not, I will modify my intake, but then, as you say, it will become a 'diet' I knew this WOE had to be too good to be true. I keep thinking ' Emperors New Clothes' hope we don't all find ourselves looking like right twits in the altogether!

WA ,started sunny and gorgeous but getting cloudy and cool
Time for a Mother's Day nap.fasting tomorrow but just had a healthy chicken salad for lunch didn't skimp on yummy salad dressing and croutons though
Love this thread.maryann i
find I put on with when I drink wine,don't know of its the wine or that when I am relaxed I eat more. GMH,your fast is almost over.when is your next one?
I am doing monday, Wednesday but each week so far have found it quite easy to add Friday .anyway I feel good.

Yes Good idea Wendy Darling tho u have done well so far. Sarahg, I lived Perth for a few years . I will fast Tues/Thurs/Sunday - yes almost over and just eating some curried veg - starving!

Rightyo - I wasn't that clear - I meant sticking to TDEE (as in counting calories) on feed days. I have the vision stuck in my brain of Varady & Mosley eating the biggest burgers I have ever seen and them discussing that her participants were able to eat anything & as much as they liked and to her surprise it was only about 110% of their 'normal', as in usual calories. She had thought it would be 125% - also they lost weight...but remember all her participants were obese, so that's just 1 sector of the population.

Some of her studies were limited to obese black and hispanic women too.

Varady's studies are generally ADF and in the most controlled one they were given 25% and 125% of TDEE on alternate days. That was after a 2-week run-in TDEE diet.

Harvie didn't provide food but asked her subjects "to consume estimated requirements for weight maintenance for the remaining 5 days according to the nutrient composition above" ie TDEE for 5 days and the specified restricted diet for the other two consecutive days. Her intermittent group achieved a 30% reduction in calorie intake, with 2 days at 75% restriction providing 21.3% there was voluntary restriction in eating on the 5 days as well.

That's as close as I can get to answering your question. Some studies just found that people didn't eat that much more (if at all) on feed days, others like the above sought to limit it. Some on proper ADF (zero calorie fasts) were told to eat twice as much on feed days and didn't, consequently losing weight.

Also, I have always taken the mantra of 'eat normally 5 days a week' as eat what YOU normally eat 5 days a week - not eat what 'normal' people eat 5 days a week. This is an assumption that if u do this you are cutting your cals over the whole week , whether u stick to ur TDEE or not.

Well you would cut calories but not necessarily lose weight, which seems to be the majority focus. If you overeat by 30% normally then a restriction to 25% of requirements on 2 days a week will just stop you getting fatter.

For someone with a lot of weight still to lose knowing ones TDEE is a useful way of keeping within eating guidelines on eating days. As has previously been said "normal" eating is what made me gain weight & re-establishing & learning a new way of eating that stays within TDEE limits enables me to keep a check of my daily intake & lose weight. Unfortunately the older one gets the easier it is to gain weight with a slower metabolism & less active lifestyle. I am still within the higher BMI range unlike many of you who luckily have less weight to lose than me.

@GMH - re. your original post, this recent paper of Moseley's has a nice clear diagram of the TDEE / normal recommendations (you'll need to go to the full paper pdf or html using the options on the right).

http://dvd.sagepub.com/content/13/2/68

This was a very good question!

The basic idea of 5:2 is what you've stated: if you eat ~500 calories two days per week and then eat "whatever you want" the other 5 days, many/most people will find success with this diet because the two repair days (I like "repair" more than "fast" for various reasons) serve to kind-of reset your base appetite and you don't overeat on your normal-ish days, and that creates a weekly caloric deficit and steady (perhaps slower than you might otherwise like) weight loss.

The problem with this idea is that many/most people is not all people. Some people find that their appetite is not reduced by the repair days and they need to track their calories to know when to stop eating. Some people discover they have thyroid issues and their metabolism is much, much lower than someone else at their height/weight. Some people have just been on diets for so long that it just feels wrong to them to not track their calories.

So, if the basic idea of 5:2 as I've described above works for you -- that's great! Many here will be envious of you, but still supportive. If you find it doesn't work to meet your weight loss goals, the whole TDEE calculation and normal/feed day calorie tracking thing seems to work for a lot of people here, and you'll find a lot of support here for that as well.

[carorees]

Let's be clear that Varady's studies used ADF ... that's fasting every other day... much more often than on 5:2. Of course it's much much harder to average over your TDEE if every other day you are only having 500 cal. If you want guaranteed weight loss without calorie counting you have to fast more often! But, as Bruce says, two days a week works for many people.

Hi All. Sorry to sound thick, but what is TDEE and what does it stand for? thanks