The FastDay Forum

the "obesity disease" has only been "discovered" in affluent societies where individuals have access to unlimited choices in food sustenance.

When my aunt became obese, it was during or just after the German occupation here in Athens. Not only society wasn't affluent but there was starvation and poverty all around.
I'm not saying that the modern way of living and eating aren't responsible for having more obese people but some of them are indeed ill and no matter how hard they try they cannot lose weight.

I found this link

Thanks Merlin, the attitude of the piece (and I fear of the whole debate, including within the AMA) is whether it is helpful or unhelpful to classify obesity as a disease. I would have thought the real question is: is it true? Once you step away from truth the law of unintended consequences steps in and wreaks havoc...

There do seem to be genetic conditions and diseases/conditions which pre-dispose people to obesity but that makes it a symptom doesn't it, not a disease?

I just hate the implication that obesity is something that was done to us and we have no personal responsibility for it. Everyone here is clearly taking control by following 5:2 (in some form) and beating this monster, but so many more out there have now been given the perfect excuse to keep on eating...

Dominic, I was about to say almost the same thing.
Obesity by itself might not be a disease but it can be a result or a symptom of some diseases.

I think I am in the majority when I say I became fat by eating too much, too often and I'm losing weight by doing the opposite ie. eating less and less often! Of course there is a minority of people who have certain medical conditions that make it difficult to lose or easier to gain, but the great majority of people (yes, us!) can and do lose weight by eating less. I am pretty sure that war time rationing did not promote obesity and in fact, lots of claims have been made to the effect that all that boiled, watery cabbage, with a little meat and some boiled potatoes did most of the British population the world of good! (Perhaps not our taste buds though!) There are of course rare exceptions, but most of us got fat through wrong choices, too much or the wrong kind of eating, and of course drinking! Most of us have known someone very overweight who claimed to eat hardly enough to eat a sparrow, but would till have a tasty cream cake every other tea break, and who would often mention the problem with her "glands". Recognizing the part we have played in arriving on this forum is all part of the solution.

this is receiving a lot of views on TED right now; perhaps he is right?At the very least, it's an interesting theory

http://on.ted.com/PeterAttia

Yes, it's very interesting stuff, he's a clever guy, and another one on a very high fat diet.

Hi I've eaten myself to obesity yes definitely as I mentioned somewhere earlier in this woe, as a child + teenager I wasn't fat at all in fact quite slim, as other life got going + childbirth etc, when I first joined a slimming club they preached to you how important breakfast was so I started to eat it prior to that I only had 1or2 pieces of fruit usually at lunch time then family evening meal, It amazes me know that this (usual day) to me has become ''The Fast Diet'' an absolutely healthy weight loss system that's working amazingly well for me, I'm not saying the ''clubs'' have made me m/obese coz I've managed that on my own, but I feel I've waisted so many years and cash on all those '' promised diet wonders''
Never mind I've got here now + no time to waste water under the bridge etc etc and how it's working for me I'm Gobsmacked Sue

I also have eaten myself to obesity - but the question is why has that happened when I have always wanted to be slim and have tried so very hard to control my eating and lose weight for approximately 50 years. I have over the years lost substantial amounts of weight but despite major efforts it has come back- yes because I started overheating again but again I felt driven to eat, like an addict. I have hated the way I have eaten over the years. Being oN 5:2 has been a revelation to me - that insatiable drive to eat has disappeared - the cravings are gone from the first day I fasted. I really feels like magic. So I think there is something physiological going on with me. I only hope that it lasts.

Regarding considering obesity as a disease - do we consider alcoholism and drug addiction as diseases, what about gambling addiction?

Dunno if it is physiological but it is definitely psychological.
First of all, it is not a diet. Just the word diet makes me shiver -not this time!
Secondly, we only restrain ourselves twice a week. It sounds -and is- feasible.
Third, by eating around our TDEE, we learn to eat as much as we need and not as much as we want.
Last, but not least, if we do eat more than we need once it is neither the end of the world, nor the end of the diet. No guilty feeling, no worries, no quitting.
And did I mention social life? It's still there!!!

Interestingly, of all the millions of people that have suffered the nightmares of concentration and work camps where diet was enforced, as in barely sustainable, starvation levels were exceedingly high. I've not seen any evidence of genetically obseity or the fat gene in existence in those situations. It beggars the question that the "obesity disease" has only been "discovered" in affluent societies where individuals have access to unlimited choices in food sustenance.

It would be interesting to know what happened with their weight if they were lucky enough to return to normal life. I have a vague recollection of reading an article many years ago that suggested that some got fat again. Anyone have any info on this?

Interestingly, of all the millions of people that have suffered the nightmares of concentration and work camps where diet was enforced, as in barely sustainable, starvation levels were exceedingly high. I've not seen any evidence of genetically obseity or the fat gene in existence in those situations. It beggars the question that the "obesity disease" has only been "discovered" in affluent societies where individuals have access to unlimited choices in food sustenance.

It would be interesting to know what happened with their weight if they were lucky enough to return to normal life. I have a vague recollection of reading an article many years ago that suggested that some got fat again. Anyone have any info on this?

As I understand the state of research today, the 'fat gene' causes people that have food to keep eating it until it is gone. This link includes an interesting demonstration using children:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeeFrcvt3KA

This kind of gene would be good historically. A person that just kept eating when there was food would get fatter than those that did not and have a better chance of surviving when food was scarce. Today, when we have all the food we need, that kind of gene is not helpful.

However, it also leaves hope. If food is taken away (ie. fasting), the effect can be mitigated. So having the gene is not a final sentence to being fat forever.

Interestingly, of all the millions of people that have suffered the nightmares of concentration and work camps where diet was enforced, as in barely sustainable, starvation levels were exceedingly high. I've not seen any evidence of genetically obseity or the fat gene in existence in those situations. It beggars the question that the "obesity disease" has only been "discovered" in affluent societies where individuals have access to unlimited choices in food sustenance.

It would be interesting to know what happened with their weight if they were lucky enough to return to normal life. I have a vague recollection of reading an article many years ago that suggested that some got fat again. Anyone have any info on this?

Not a research's result but observation showed that many people got fat because they started behaving differently when they finally had food. They ate more then they needed.
Also, there was a new syndrome, "occupational syndrome", which was observed in parents and grand parents who survived the occupation. They kept feeding their children because they were afraid of another war.
My grandmother had it, it was very difficult to be a child around her, she was always chasing as with a spoon...

TML my Granny was the same. Although I didnt mind at all. She was always feeding us up. She was from Jersey and lived the occupation. In the end even the >German soldiers were starving on the island as no food got through!!! My inlaws also have a thing about feeding us huge amounts of food. They were born after civil war in Spain and grew up in what has been described as the years of hunger. I can definitely see a link.

I am prepared to take on board the alarming conclusion of that Horizon programme that there are naturally 'fat' people, whether because of the number of their fat cells, their genes or some other mind/body thing, and that they (er, we) will always feel hungrier than thin people.

Even when we fatties reach maintenance, we may look angelic but our sinful nature is still within us. My weight rises quite alarmingly left to itself. Between my last two fast days I put on 5.5 lbs in 6 days, and I wasn't on holiday. I'm not suggesting any magic here, clearly I overate but there was only one blowout Indian meal honest! Fortunately 3.5 lbs of it came off yesterday...

Until now our only options were to be fat and satisfied, or to be thin and hungry. Intermittent fasting offers a third way. We tolerate a degree of hunger (and even learn to love it!) on a regular occasional basis, and then we can eat normally the rest of the time and keep our stomachs happy. No nagging hunger and no permanent self-denial.

By all means call obesity a disease or a medical condition if you like, but with 5:2 we don't have to succumb to it, we can beat it!

I think intermittent fasting is a great tool in the so called War on Obesity. Can it help us win the battle of the bulge? Well, it is certainly helping me in the short term! But, I really think it remains to be seen whether we shall win the whole war. Maybe, it's because this is my second time losing on 4:3/ADF. But, I believe we will have to fight long and hard in maintenance. The statistics say that 95% of people who lose any significant amount of weight gain it all back and usually a few more pounds. Many before the year is up, but almost all by 5 years out. Is it possible to beat it, sure...but, how committed do you have to be in maintenance to be in that 5 percent of people who keep it off?? Sorry, I don't mean to be a downer; but since this has already happened to me once it is hard to overlook it.

For me, this is the most interesting question about IF. Will we be able to keep the weight off? I'm glad to see there are people here doing it (and hanging around to tell us about it).

[carorees]

@43tweaker Why did you stop doing ADF the first time round? Do you think maintenance using fasting is hard because of diet fatigue or due to increased hunger drives?