The FastDay Forum

Hi Pip, I'm not sure how much of what you wrote is to invite serious answers or just to let off steam!

Serious answers are always good Dom

the biological explanation would be that the average metabolic rate (i.e. calories burned) is higher if you feast/famine.

Is there proof for this? How would that work in an evolutionary sense?

He certainly didn't invent intermittent fasting nor even 5:2 fasting, but he did come up with the very simple formulation of it that most of us here are following

So basically, he came up with the 'eat 500 cals on fast days cause it's more sustainable'? And that's it?

I ate below my TDEE (with very few of exceptions, such as holidays) for years. I didn't know it but I did. And I thought I was eating normally too!!! Normally and healthy too!

You were eating bellow your TDEE and became overweight?

Nobody NEEDS to do that. You WANT it, you LIKE it, you DO it but you don't need it. Neither physically nor emotionally.
I can eat 8 slices of pizza easily and then scoff a pound of ice cream. I will enjoy it for sure but there is no way to convince me that I actually need to do that!!!

My mental health needs it

IMO, some people WANT to misinterpret what they are supposed to eat on the 5 days

Last week there was a US news report about 5:2 (I believe it was on ABC news) where they said you fast for 2 days and for the other 5 you need (and I quote) "no willpower". The clip is online somewhere.

I have found that after just a few fasts that I physically CAN'T eat as much as I want or what I used to eat at any given meal. I'm very grateful to now have a 'normal' size meal and have it be too much for my tummy to handle.

I have experienced something similar. I find that when I binge now - rather than just ending up bloated it actually ends up hurting!

'The biological explanation would be that the average metabolic rate (i.e. calories burned) is higher if you feast/famine.' Is there proof for this? How would that work in an evolutionary sense?

No, it is just a working hypothesis (mine, if you like) to explain that what was suggested (by someone else from their experience) was not necessarily scientifically impossible.

I'm wary of evolutionary arguments because it seems to me we can use evolution to defend almost anything we like. There are no cavemen around to prove the theories wrong.

So basically, he came up with the 'eat 500 cals on fast days cause it's more sustainable'? And that's it?

Neat isn't it! I dare say you don't want to splash out on the book, but if you have a look at my previous post on this thread you will see a link to the Short Answers FAQ where you can find a link to his original programme.

Yeah I watched Horizon (way back last year before it was 'cool').

Dom can I ask your POV on something? Would you say it was better to break the 500 cals into little 'snacks' throughout the day, or to eat them all in one chunk at the end of the day? I do the latter as I thought it would be more beneficial to give my body a rest from processing food, but most people appear to go for the little snacks option.

Hi Pip: personally I have always done like you, partly because (again like you) I reckon it gives the biggest fasting benefit (see this), but also because I always found it easiest. Skipping breakfast and lunch was never a huge problem for me, it was the evenings when I craved my calories. It's all much easier now anyway.

My impression (not scientific) is that most long-term fasters do the same as me, and that the 3-meals-a-day routine is more used by newcomers who are scared of the idea of going without for such a long period. Over time more people find it actually easier to go without rather than eat and then get hungry a bit later (insulin spike maybe). But I can't say for sure.

Hi insx,

Well, you've well and truly put the cat amongst the pigeons! The one thing I have learned about diets over years is that they all work til you stop doing them then it is back to square one. Diets make you fat as they are unsustainable in the long term so are programmed to fail eventually.

5:2 IS NOT A DIET! This is a sustainable way of life which I am doing for the, alleged, long term health benefits, my now missing 21lbs was a very happy side effect of this life style which I shall continue for the rest of my life on a maintenance programme.

The other thing I have learned is that unless you are in the right frame of mind to change anything in your life you will not succeed. Is your wife really committed to this or going through the motions because she feels it is what you want her to do?

I hope you can both find a way through this and be happy with whatever you achieve, my best wishes to you both,

Ballerina x

Hi Pip: personally I have always done like you, partly because (again like you) I reckon it gives the biggest fasting benefit (see this), but also because I always found it easiest. Skipping breakfast and lunch was never a huge problem for me, it was the evenings when I craved my calories. It's all much easier now anyway.

My impression (not scientific) is that most long-term fasters do the same as me, and that the 3-meals-a-day routine is more used by newcomers who are scared of the idea of going without for such a long period. Over time more people find it actually easier to go without rather than eat and then get hungry a bit later (insulin spike maybe). But I can't say for sure.

Very interesting link. Thank you This part stuck out:

He suggests that if you have to consume 5/600 calories then they should be consumed as one meal, very early in the morning so as to maximise the length of the fast.

Hmmm this is bizarre. Surely saving cals till evening gives the longest fast? (cause you would have fasted all night, then all morning, right up till evening).

Also I wonder what the snackers would think of this:

‘eating the 500 calorie allowance throughout the day would prevent a persons body going into a fasted state’

[carorees]

Well having the one meal in the evening gives the same length of fast doesn't it? You're either going dinner to dinner and then having 500 cal or having 500 cal and then going breakfast to breakfast.

Well having the one meal in the evening gives the same length of fast doesn't it? You're either going dinner to dinner and then having 500 cal or having 500 cal and then going breakfast to breakfast.

But why break a nighttime fast by having breakfast?

[carorees]

Well having the one meal in the evening gives the same length of fast doesn't it? You're either going dinner to dinner and then having 500 cal or having 500 cal and then going breakfast to breakfast.

But why break a nighttime fast by having breakfast?

Why break a daytime fast by having dinner? It's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other! But the advantage of the evening meal is that you don't go to bed hungry. I think someone wasn't thinking too clearly when he suggested the 500 cals in the morning!

<<You were eating bellow your TDEE and became overweight?>>
Yes. My thyroid stopped working and I gained 4 kilos in about 10 days. I had gained 2 more kilos in around 3 months but I didn't consider it something to worry about and I just tried to lose them, unsuccessfully.

<<My mental health needs it>>
If your mental health NEEDS to overeat then there's something wrong with it and perhaps you should start with fixing that...

<<Last week there was a US news report about 5:2 (I believe it was on ABC news) where they said you fast for 2 days and for the other 5 you need (and I quote) "no willpower". The clip is online somewhere.>>
Let's face it, it doesn't need much willpower to eat whatever you like in sensible quantities.

Also I wonder what the snackers would think of this:

‘eating the 500 calorie allowance throughout the day would prevent a persons body going into a fasted state’

Pip, it depends on why one is following 5:2 and how far they can take it. Personally, I do it for the weight loss so I don't mind if I don't get the fasting benefits. Additionally, I can't do one meal of 500 or even two meals with 12 hours between them. So, instead of not doing it at all, I do it the way I can do it.

Every body is different and everybody reacts slightly differently to stimuli like fast days. I've found that 4 weeks in I do not overeat on my normal days (I hate the words feast or feed--wrong message for me) which is consistent with the research. I'm losing both weight and inches. The key for me is that I don't have to think about food with this method. Two days a week I live on coffee, sparkling water and soup. Never think about food on those days because I know the plan. On my non-fast, normal days I just just eat normally. I don't count calories on non-fast days, but I don't "reward" myself either. I just eat. Other diets make you think about food constantly. Every minute seems consumed by what you're eating or drinking and how many points or calories.. Ugh. This works for me and, I suspect, many others because it an autopilot plan. That's my story anyway... And I love the way I feel on fast days. That empty, hungry feeling is awesome. I'm not afraid of my hunger--it doesn't control me and I know it won't last forever, I'm eating the next day. BTW-- I fast from bedtime through next full day and night. Usually that means 600 or fewer calories for 33-35 hours. Twice a week. Hasn't been that hard. We'll see if I feel that way in six months. The only issue for me is planning the fast days. I travel a great deal for work and often have business breakfast, lunch and dinner plus a mtg over drinks. So I have to fast when I'm on an airplane all day (airplane food sucks anyway) or when I'm not traveling. I actually put it in my diary--then I know what the plan is.

Believe me, I'm no expert, but I understand that breakfast starts your metabolism for the day, so no breakfast = slower weight loss.

Believe me, I'm no expert, but I understand that breakfast starts your metabolism for the day, so no breakfast = slower weight loss.

I agree with that 100%! I used to skip breakfast till I realised that it was the best way to not lose weight.

Believe me, I'm no expert, but I understand that breakfast starts your metabolism for the day, so no breakfast = slower weight loss.

Check this out...

http://stronglifts.com/7-reasons-why-yo ... breakfast/