The FastDay Forum

Since 6:1 seems not enough (to me, that is) I will either do 5:2 with eating more on 5 days or 5:2 with eating a bit more on 2 days. I feel that this way I'll have more control. Can you tell that I am a control-freak?

I like this idea!

I hope it works!

Kencc thankyou for your post, what you say is quite right and maybe I lost the weight too quickly and obviously won't be able to eat like I did before losing the weight, and it will take time for my body to adjust. Like you I prefer to weigh in every day to keep a checkonmy weight and note the upward or downward trend.

[carorees]

The scientific literature suggests it can take over a year - maybe 3 or more - before the body will defend the new weight rather than try to return to the old one. That's why this WOL must be for life. Once you reach target it's a question of manually defending the new weight through monitoring and adjusting intake. Studies have found that people who maintained a new lower weight for 5 years had a high likelihood of staying at that weight.

Has Dr. M reported how 6:1 is going for him lately?

@kencc I think I should be OK too as my TDEE won't be dramatically different from what it was before having lost only 6kg. I've decided that if I go up to 58kgs on the scales I'll do 5:2 until I get back to under 57kgs (on after a non fast day).
@Caroline, I lost 8kgs 3 years ago and kept that off but I definitely changed my eating habits to do so. Previously my weight was always around 70kgs when I ate what I wanted and lived in civilisation where I could eat an Indian meal (or 2) every week! It is easier to be good in rural France.

I think MM maintains his weight but sometimes reverts to 5:2 in order to do so when 6:1 isn't enough, but haven't heard him speak on the matter recently.

So, I did one week of 6:1 and gained weight ( maybe I was too quick to judge but I also felt a bit out of control) so three weeks ago I stared 5:2 with one day of 500 and one day of 1000 in which I consume most calories during the evening. In the first week I lost 800 grams in the second week I gained 700 grams but that was that time of the month. Now is the end of the third week and today is my weigh in day however I'm not at home. I had a conference in Washington DC and stayed with my hubby for the weekend. we are having fun. Eating in restaurants, just had a breakfast in bed of a small croissant and coffee i count my calories roughly and aim for 1900 a day and i also exercise (jogging and lots of walking). hope that I will not be disappointed when I'll get home.

Sorry, but why do you people who are below BMI=20 WANT to be underweight?

Fasting will never help you do this. Fasting will propel you towards a normal weight, which means if you are below this, you will put on weight. Doh!

Why is <20 underweight? Why carry unnecessary fat around? Some of us are quite old - we are supposed to get lighter with age, if we were losing muscle I would agree but I certainly am not... Fasting could send you to an early grave if you chose to let it - not some magic ideal weight. Doh!

Pete, you say "Why carry excess fat around?" when in fact by most measures you are not doing this. If you are saying you want 0% body fat then I would suggest this is impossible, and that you should be guided as to what the minimum is by elite athletes who have about 10% body fat - although clearly you are not such an althete and may require more for optimum health.

My point was that a fasting regime will not help you attain an underweight condition. It will merely help you towards a normal weight condition - fasting has been used to restore underweight individuals to normal weight, when no matter how much they ate they could not increase their weight before the fasting intervention.

If you are underweight already you will not lose further on this regime as the whole point of it is that the body knows what its normal weight is and will attempt to attain it, unless the patient overfeeds itself.

Franglaise
I think you lost 6kg in 8 weeks. Which is a calorie deficit of 6,000cals/week. Which is a lot. Getting back to maintenance calories will probably take your body somewhere between, say, 6 weeks and 8 weeks to sort out some sort of equilibrium with calories in/out, fluid retention etc. Assuming you had a 6,000cal/week deficit then perhaps try to reduce that deficit by, say, roughly 1,000cals every week until you think you're at maintenance calories. Takes a lot of discipline to lose 6kg in 8 weeks ... unfortunately it may take another 6 weeks or so of discipline and patience while your body finds its equilibrium calorie maintenance level. My usual mantra ... I find daily weigh-ins/trendline the only way to get feedback and monitor whether what I'm attempting is on-track ... which gives me the best chance of meeting my objective as quickly as possible.

6 kgs in 8 weeks is 6 x 2.2 /8 = 1.65 lbs a week which is a bit above the average but by no means exceptional at all bearing in mind the average is 1 lb a week on average according to these forum's stats.

Franglaise, unfortunately your arbitrary choice of ideal weight will never be recognised by your body - it knows nothing of this and will always seek to regain its ideal weight if you don't underfeed or overfeed it - this weight may be lower or higher than the weight you choose - if is it lower or higher, then you will constantly have to work to force you body to maintain the "ideal" weight you have assigned to it.

Geodesic-

1) Underweight is BMI below 18.5 - which does not apply to Franglaise or me

2) I have lost 13 lbs on this diet but do not intend to lose anymore - 5 ft 10in and 9 stone 12 sounds about right for a 62-year-old who is reasonably active.

3) I do not seem to have 0% body fat - the usual calculation (can be found on this forum) suggests 21.6%

4) I have been an athlete, although not spectacularly, having run a marathon in 2h 54m, 100 km in 12 hrs and done the Bob Graham round of the Lake District in my time. I still do parkrun every Saturday morning.

5) I cannot comprehend your comment that fasting can achieve an ideal bodyweight. Bobby Sands and others died by fasting. What controlled fasting can do is reset your appetite, retrain bad eating habits and allow sufficient time between meals that insulin etc can be reduced to normal levels.

Why are you so concerned about Franglaise and I who clearly wish to be as light as reasonably possible without getting into difficulties? We believe there will be a health benefit, we might be wrong but we have done ourselves no harm getting to where we are and trying to maintain this happy state. My most recent blood test was very satisfactory for cholesterol etc, my doctor has no problems with my weight.

[carorees]

My point was that a fasting regime will not help you attain an underweight condition. It will merely help you towards a normal weight condition - fasting has been used to restore underweight individuals to normal weight, when no matter how much they ate they could not increase their weight before the fasting intervention.

Can you give me the link to that study? I'd be very interested to read how that works. Presumably it's to do with slowing metabolism through thyroid function changes?

My point was that a fasting regime will not help you attain an underweight condition. It will merely help you towards a normal weight condition - fasting has been used to restore underweight individuals to normal weight, when no matter how much they ate they could not increase their weight before the fasting intervention.

Can you give me the link to that study? I'd be very interested to read how that works. Presumably it's to do with slowing metabolism through thyroid function changes?

I have no links at hand, but the fasting literature, particularly from about a hundred years ago (see the books by Dr Dewey, Sinclair Lewis and some others referenced in the Resources section), is full of examples of underweight people who became normal weight through fasting. BUT this was accomplished with an extended water fast, during which the subjects lost weight. It was after they resumed normal, usually very healthy eating that they attained normal weight. The extended fasts lasted until the return of hunger. Presumably, during the fast the body rids itself of toxins (or whatever you want to call undesirable elements) and resets itself, so to speak. The underweight people were possibly suffering from malabsorption of the nutrients they consumed, and fasting cleared whatever digestive issues were causing the malabsorption. Sinclair Lewis is someone who gained weight after an intermediate-length fast (10 or 20 days, IIRC) and wrote about it here:
http://www.soilandhealth.org/02/0201hyg ... frame.html

Again, these are extended water fasts involving weight loss, followed by normal eating that results in gaining more weight than was lost.

By today's standards I suppose I am underweight, yet I am doing a no-cal fast of 32 to 40 hours once a week for the health benefits - physical, mental and spiritual. With a bit of attention and effort I've managed to hold my weight steady except for an initial loss of about 1 kg.

Also, I would remind everyone that recommended weight guidelines have risen over the years, probably along with the upsizing of the general population. A part of the population that was once considered normal weight would now be classified as underweight.

the fasting literature, particularly from about a hundred years ago... is full of examples of underweight people who became normal weight through... an extended water fast, during which the subjects lost weight... until the return of hunger.

It is counter-intuitive to say the least. And a very high risk strategy particularly if the person is underweight because they have issues around food. Interesting as an idea but I wouldn't want to recommend it to anyone in that position.

[carorees]

Ok, from what you've said the most likely explanation is that the well known reduction in thyroid function with fasting persists into the feeding phase resulting in weight gain. Probably the prolonged fast does seem to reset something there seems to be evidence that both overweight and underweight people benefit from fasting. Very interesting!