The FastDay Forum

[janeg]

Don't know if gay paree could handle the two of us at the same time ballerina!
We're actually staying quite far out beside the exhibition centre as we're working. Hope to have a couple of days off and might migrate into the centre for a couple of nights in a decent hotel.
I'll certainly keep an eye out
and am sure I won't die of malnutrition without breakfast. Just the thought of the delayed gratification while Beloved is chomping (continually) is testing me already...

Well done Silverdarling
Good luck Janeg
Week 6 for me and planning to continue 5.2 and 16.8
Lost another cm off waist ,that makes it 5 cm off so far.

Erm, ate strawberries, raspberries and cream for breakfast. Is this a confessional? Sunny Dorset has welcomed us with many goodies that must be consumed ... Tiramisu in the fridge for later!

It's holiyers time so must be done. I will be soooooooooooo good next week with two strict 24 hour fasts and delayed eating by day and nothing after 7pm, honest.

No scales here and not counted a single calorie since Friday. It's all good :0)

[carorees]

Hi gigi,

just making a guest apperance on this thread, so hi! I think the longer time bedaystween meals is where the benifit lies as Sarahg has just pointed out. My understanding is that you start to burn fat after 14-16 hours and, within reason, the calorie count comes second. The mouse experiment in Dr M's book is what first put this idea in my head. Two sets of mice were given identical food, one lot had free access to their food 24 hours a day and the second lot had their access restricted to 8 hour a day. The rstricted mice lost almost 30% more fat than the constant nibblers. I think it had something to do with insulin levels not being constantly raised due digesting food non stop.

Hope this makes sense and helps, just off to the pool now with my coffee, see you all later,

Ballerina x

You should remember, when considering the eating window in the mouse study, that 8 hours of fasting for a mouse is the equivalent of a much longer fast for a human. Of course, this does not mean that there aren't benefits to the 8 hour easing window approach, but that the research quotes does not really support the theory.

See this thread: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2311 where I report on an article explaining the reason why it is not valid to extrapolate mouse and rat studies on fasting to humans.

Here is a key section from the article:

The two studies(that I am aware of) that increased feeding frequency and reduced fasting duration the most, still left rats with a daily 16 hour gap between food rations(4), and left mice for a 12 hour daily gap between food rations(5). As noted above, ad libitum rats normally experience a maximum of just 3 to 4 hours between meals, and ad libitum mice just 1 hour gap. Were these studies sufficient to rule out the effects of long periods of fasting? As shown above, even just 16 hours of food deprivation in rats results in very significant physiological effects. Mice likely experience even quicker alteration in physiology due to food deprivation, such that 12 hours without food may still be a significant period for them to go without food. These rodents were quite likely still undergoing ketosis, for instance.To give a comparison: using the best-case scenario, based on the feeding regimes used in the small number of studies that attempted to limit the periods between feedings, and the human:rodent metabolic ratios described above, a human-scaled equivalent feeding regime would still lead to somewhere between about 72 and 160 hours between meals. That's a minimum of three days without eating in human terms, and that's given the best case scenario currently available from studies into rodents.

So the 16 hour fast in the mouse studies is equivalent to a 3 or 4 day fast for us! Followed, I suppose by 2 days of solid eating! NOT recommended!

Hi Caroline,

That was an interesting post, quite an eye opener. I never intended to imply that the mouse study was definitive or particulary valid, it was just that I found it interesting. I am usually careful to point out that any opinions I express are just that, MY own personal thoughts and I freely admit that I am no expert just someone who has found a way of life that is perfect for me and I am the first to admit that we all have to find our own way along this road. I hope I have not mislead anyone or influenced them unduly,

Ballerina x

[carorees]

No, that's fine Ballerina! I expect you realize that this difference between humans and rodents also means the 5:2, ADF, eat stop eat etc formats are not validated by rodent studies! I don't think it means that we should dismiss fasting as not bringing health benefits but that we can't say e.g. "ADF reduces the risk of cancer in rodents so it will also do this in humans". We are the key experiment!

Doing 16:8 again today... Feeling guilty though as my eldest treated us to Domino's pizza, I've had 3 slices plus 2 garlic bread slices! My window ends in 2 hours and everything else has been healthy so why do I feel bad?? X

I don't think you should feel bad - 5:2 & 16:8 are all about following the fast/window rules & then behaving normally outside of that - therein lies the fab bit

3 slices of pizza & 2 of garlic bread is nothing to worry about, 2 whole pizzas would have been different

Definitely way heying today eating an M&S Spanish meal with garlic prawns, meatballs, patata bravas with chicken rounded off with lemon tart or if you want to be French tarte au citron & two glasses of wine. However the best thing is I have averaged my calories for the week taking in fast days & I am below my TDEE . I love this WOE

Thanks AnnieD!! tomorrow is my usual Monday fast, so should all be good! Couldn't imagine eating 2 whole pizzas!! xx

Hi 5:2 +16:8 gang
2nd week for me of this variation to the 5:2 theme.
Having enjoyed my way hey weekend its back to business.

The 5:2 fast of course is always the most challenging for me, especially the morning stretch. Am finding the brewed coffee with teaspoon of coconut oil (organic extra virgin cold pressed - of course) and splash of soy milk has a satiating capacity which I had after lunch. Asian veggie broth didn't stem the appetite at all have celery soup set aside for dinner. Anyway off for a walk with our dog now. It's soggy and cold, a quick walk perhaps

Hope everyone else is travelling well

ifonlyiwasslim, about your 14:10 plan did you invent it or is there a source for it somewhere? I have tried and failed to stick to an 8 hour eating window over the weekend (and it wasn't a Wey-Hey sort of weekend) and a 10 hour window would be much more doable for me.

I put in place this weekend what I hope will be the way forward on weekends - no way-hey but not really 16:8 either: I've been trying to keep within an 8 hour eating window but the fasting window has varied from 16. Saturday was "normal" - I didn't start eating till after 12 and then stopped at 8, but on Sunday I had breakfast at 9 and finished eating at 5. That window will now stay closed until about 12-1 today, so yesterday's/today's fast will end up longer than 16 hours. Does that make sense?

Still missing my brekkie though

Not only can I imagine eating 2 whole pizzas.....doing usual 5/2 and 16/8 this week. Had a big weekend, with pizza and my niece and 6 of her best friends all 14/15 year old girls here at a sleepover so house full of teenager food and I have struggled to resist. Will have to get rid of it all quickly, and not by eating it

Afternoon!! Today is my usual Monday fast, I'm struggling, got a bad head and am STARVING!!
What do all you 5:2 & 16:8'ers do after a normal 5:2 fast... Is the next day normal or do you do 16:8??? I fasted last week on Mon & Wed as normal then did 16:8 thurs/Fri/sat/sun and apart from yesterday when my son bought us Domino's it's all been good.... SOOO why have I gained 4pounds since Friday?! Also the thought of not eating from tonight until lunchtime tomorrow fills me with horror?!
Was considering fasting Mon & Wed and eating 'normally' Tues & Thurs and 16:8 on the final 3 days?!
Apologies for waffling!